Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am confused on that first statement- if we don't want others like the UN telling us what to do, then why do we try to tell other countries how to handle THEIR internal matters?? We created the UN and have agreed to be a member of it and work with the world community as a member. So why is it that we expect other nations to follow whatever rules are put in place, but then get all upset if we don't like what WE are told to do?
That was before the UN became hijacked by anti-western dictators and tyrants.
Furthermore, why is Tibet, Crimea, Xinjiang, Chechnya, Hong Kong, Macau, and Kaliningrad not on this list of non-self governing colonies? Hmm gee, could it possibly be because the "decolonization committee" is made up of undemocratic countries ruled by dictators who are only interested in antagonizing and picking fights with the US and Western Europe? The ONLY entities on the list are those "ruled" by the US or a Western European country. It's not a coincidence ...
I remember when the UN expressed its disapproval of the then possible invasion of Iraq. At that time I was a university student and still a bit naive of the power of the UN. In short, I thought the US would change its course because hey, its the UN talking.
You can imagine my reaction when this came on the news:
Need I say more?
Not that this time the US will not put attention to the UN, its that the US never truly puts attention to the UN, so I don't expect it will with this.
That was before the UN became hijacked by anti-western dictators and tyrants.
Furthermore, why is Tibet, Crimea, Xinjiang, Chechnya, Hong Kong, Macau, and Kaliningrad not on this list of non-self governing colonies? Hmm gee, could it possibly be because the "decolonization committee" is made up of undemocratic countries ruled by dictators who are only interested in antagonizing and picking fights with the US and Western Europe? The ONLY entities on the list are those "ruled" by the US or a Western European country. It's not a coincidence ...
You are right! Tibet would qualify as an occupied some what colony however different from Puerto Rico Tibet is a Buffer between two nuclear powers, India and China. The urgar region of western China serves the same purpose, a buffer between Russia and China. The U.N. Knows better than to mess up with geo politics.
Crimea is a special case because it's populated by Russians who don't want to be Ukrainians. We are in agreement with Chechnya however Hong Kong and Macao were always part of China and only ceded to Britain and Portugal on a lease that wore out in the last century.
Puerto Rico was acquired by the U.S. By conquest. Geopolitically it was the thing to do when nations needed navies and coal stations to supply their ships. The Navy, the real power until very recently , was not going to let go of its prize however as we all know we've lost our leverage geo strategically and the the colony that doesn't have any thing to offer the most powerful nation on the planet wants parity, $$$$$$, and more power than 27 states! Good Luck!
The UN has no valid input on this matter. It is not like they are defending Puerto Rico.
Status is an internal matter, as PR is as much an integral part of the US as any state.
It us a matter of popular sovereignty. We here on the island will make the decision and Congress will have to comply or open up a constitutional crisis.
Independence is ridiculous and next to a dead issue. The options will centre around statehood or something similar to what we now have with voting representation in Congress.
I am no lawyer but something needs to be done to give us representation. European countries with American constituent land masses are not saddled with written constitutions making union with former colonies easier. It is trickier with the US Constitution which did not envision territorial expansion, but it can be done.
I do not fear statehood if that is what it comes to. The US is already a polyglot nation and becoming more so. Spanish is not threatened by virtue of its growth throughout the US alone. It must be incorporated into more school systems, and it will. So too for English which no Puerto Rican should not be taught.
The US can easily function as multi-cultural which it already is. That is the least of its problems.
As I have said earlier, people of Puerto Rican ancestry are totally mixed into the USA--half of them on the mainland. I hardly know anyone here who does not have family there. People continually move back and forth to visit and live.
There is no emergency to the present situation unless Congress would act (highly unlikely). Nobody is suffering because of status issues.
Complicated or uncomplicated things will work out in their own good time.
SunPup as an American, brought up with exceptionalism 24/7 it doesn't surprise me that you have such a sunny view of a very complicated situation. When push comes to shove, Puerto Ricans know the difference between a Boricua and a Gringo, and that isn't the same as a Texan And an Iowan.
First of all no Constitutional crisis will happen if Congress decides to give Puerto Rico a status other than Statehood. Although it might seem that American citizenship is a hamper, but Puerto Ricans have statutory citizenship, given by an act of Congress against the will of Puerto Rico, Constitutional Citizenship is more solid. Some here will say, hey, no one can take our American Citizenship away. I wouldn't write that in stone. National Interests and REAL POLITiCS plays tricks on man made assumptions.
One thing that you fail to recognize SunPup is that Puerto Rico, different from all other territories, is a full fledged nation without sovereignty. We are not Hawaii, or New Mexico , we are more like Quebec or Cataluña, where we are a majority. Congress has never accepted a state like this, it's always been when Anglos were majority, not before.
To accept Puerto Rico as a state the U.S. Will take the step to become a multinational nation, like Canada or like many nations in Europe who are now having linguistic problems. You would say, but the U.S. Is already a multinational nation! Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not. The U.S. Is a nation composed of once distinct nationalities to form one. The glue is English! Different groups keep their folkloric stuff like rice and beans, tacos, spaghetti, make Polish festivals, have Italian American parades, celebrate Chinese New Year, but in the long run their kids speak English as their first language. Do the Nuyoricans ring a bell?
Finally, I only say that with the xenophobia and linguistic paranoia running rampant in the U.S. These days The acceptance of an exotic creature like Puerto Rico into the fold is opening up a can of worms, not for this generation of Pitiyankis, but for future generations who might think very differently. Does the U.S. Deserve this? Does Puerto Rico deserve this?
If Congress refuses to deal with statehood it has very valid reasons. As it looks now-a-days it might be looking for a way out. Maybe a plebiscite Statehood YES OR NO might be the answer for reasons I gave before.
That was before the UN became hijacked by anti-western dictators and tyrants.
Furthermore, why is Tibet, Crimea, Xinjiang, Chechnya, Hong Kong, Macau, and Kaliningrad not on this list of non-self governing colonies? Hmm gee, could it possibly be because the "decolonization committee" is made up of undemocratic countries ruled by dictators who are only interested in antagonizing and picking fights with the US and Western Europe? The ONLY entities on the list are those "ruled" by the US or a Western European country. It's not a coincidence ...
Crimea is a new issue now that Russia has grabbed it, but the others are no longer colonies- Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, and Macau, for example, are just a part of mainland China. A couple such as Hong Kong and Macau are special admin regions allowing the people to have a bit more open freedom than the rest of the mainland, but they definitely are not colonies anymore.
Clip does not know anything about me except to misjudge me and call me names. His posts indicate a one-sided thinking not really rooted in complete reality. It is very easy to take any issue like Puerto Rico's future and discuss and judge it with relation to past events.
The world us an ever changing place, so what might have been so yesterday is not necessarily so to-day.
He claims I am raised thinking the US to be exceptional. What nonsense! If he carefully read what I have been writing, he would discern that I am totally opposed to any people, nation, or culture making this claim. I strongly support the brotherhood of all men (the reason I oppose perjorative name-calling which he likes to use).
I am an Anglo Puerto Rican--this is my home and I support and defend it. It is absolutely untrue that I am perceived as an outsider. Maybe by the ilk of his type of judgemental people, but not by the majority. I could find more people of PR ancestry to oppose his thinking than he could find to support it.
I never said that a constitutional crisis would result, unless Puerto Rico requested statehood and was denied. His reasoning that other parts of the US are vastly different from PR evidences a lack of travel and experience in many of these areas. Hawaii, for example, feels a lot less like the mainland than PR despite English being more common. That was a nation , and that past is an integral part of what Hawaii is to-day. There is much more a lack of acceptance of mainland Anglos than in PR.
Also, commonly avoided in separatist arguments is the very real and old commingling of the Puerto Rican ancestry people within the US. This mixing will ensure the bond that now exists.
The Quebec analogy falls short.of reality. Quebec always resisted Anglo Canadian commingling.
Of course each national aspiration differs.from place to place, but to think PuertoRico wants to be separate, independent, and apart from the US is wishful thinking by people.who strongly dislike or hate this bond.
Puerto Rico will never lose its individuality, but that compliments its association with the federal union. As in any marriage there is give and take, and that is the way it remains and will be.
Clip does not know anything about me except to misjudge me and call me names. His posts indicate a one-sided thinking not really rooted in complete reality. It is very easy to take any issue like Puerto Rico's future and discuss and judge it with relation to past events.
The world us an ever changing place, so what might have been so yesterday is not necessarily so to-day.
He claims I am raised thinking the US to be exceptional. What nonsense! If he carefully read what I have been writing, he would discern that I am totally opposed to any people, nation, or culture making this claim. I strongly support the brotherhood of all men (the reason I oppose perjorative name-calling which he likes to use).
I am an Anglo Puerto Rican--this is my home and I support and defend it. It is absolutely untrue that I am perceived as an outsider. Maybe by the ilk of his type of judgemental people, but not by the majority. I could find more people of PR ancestry to oppose his thinking than he could find to support it.
I never said that a constitutional crisis would result, unless Puerto Rico requested statehood and was denied. His reasoning that other parts of the US are vastly different from PR evidences a lack of travel and experience in many of these areas. Hawaii, for example, feels a lot less like the mainland than PR despite English being more common. That was a nation , and that past is an integral part of what Hawaii is to-day. There is much more a lack of acceptance of mainland Anglos than in PR.
Also, commonly avoided in separatist arguments is the very real and old commingling of the Puerto Rican ancestry people within the US. This mixing will ensure the bond that now exists.
The Quebec analogy falls short.of reality. Quebec always resisted Anglo Canadian commingling.
Of course each national aspiration differs.from place to place, but to think PuertoRico wants to be separate, independent, and apart from the US is wishful thinking by people.who strongly dislike or hate this bond.
Puerto Rico will never lose its individuality, but that compliments its association with the federal union. As in any marriage there is give and take, and that is the way it remains and will be.
Calling names? You still persist on this charade. Many Puerto Rican here have said many times that what you call an insult is just an expression, depending on its intonation. But because , I assume, you don't know Spanish, how can you figure this out ? I'm not here to convince you otherwise, so drop the subject because it leads no where.
I'm very glad you feel at home here and consider yourself an Anglo Puerto Rican, what ever that means. The only Anglo Puerto Ricans I've met we're Nuyoricans and that to many is an insult because they are not considered full Puerto Rican. You still don't get it, language locks in our identity and self respect, and English is not included, like many statehooders hope.
Puerto Ricans are very polite and insular. They would hardly ever talk to a gringo and express true feelings. That's why I told you to get out of your Gringo ghetto in Rincón, or wherever you live , and go meet people. If you find English speakers they will not indulge you in our national pass time, Politics! For that you have to be willing to converse in Spanish, go to a bar on Friday Nights and blend yourself in with the guys. Don't be surprised if some would consider you "un Gringo buena gente" but you shouldn't consider this an insult , but you most doubtly will.
By living in Puerto Rico and not dealing with the population in Spanish you will only know a very small aspect of who we are. By speaking English and expecting everyone to speak English to you is already setting you up as an outsider. Language is a very potent tool to let anyone into their inner world.
You might ask yourself, why is this dude writing in English if he is such a defender of Spanish? Well Sun, if I wrote in Spanish no one here would understand except a few. I'm sure you won't respond in Spanish.
About traveling , I've traveled extensively and studied abroad. I made it my business to learn the languages and indulge people in their language, not just for directions or buying rice and beans.
I never said Puerto Rico wants separation from the U.S. and now less so since the GAO study predicted that as a state welfare $$$$$$ will fall from Washington in buckets. Who wants to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?
How ever Puerto Ricans have designed a state to their own convenience.
1- bilingual on paper, but with a predominance of Spanish
2- welfare galore.
3- more representatives than 27 states, many of these states are Republican
4- six electoral votes enough to decide a closed election
5- maintain independent Olympic representation, and stupid Miss Universe contests.
6- no payment of Federal Taxes until poverty rates are above the Federal guidelines.
I could go on and on but ..........
That is why I've always said it has to be Congress who has to set this straight and then set us to vote. But it also should say they expect a 90% pro statehood vote , if not , other options must be dealt with despite what Puerto Ricans want.
Blah blah blah ... more useless garbage from the United Nations. I think it's time to cut off their funding and evict them from US soil. The position of the United States is the same as the United Kingdom ... it's an internal matter. Period. No foreign nation will dictate to us how we should govern our lands.
The idea that Iran, Cuba, Syria, Venezuela, and the Ivory Coast have the right to dictate to the UK, US, France, etc is downright absurd. The people of Gibraltar for instance are British by choice and prefer to stay British. Additionally the government of Gibraltar has repeatedly requested that Gibraltar be delisted under the 4th option (any other option supported by the populace ie: the status quo). Both the UK and Gibraltar argue that it is absurd to consider any of the 16 British Overseas Territories to be 'colonies'. Gibraltar argues that the 2006 constitution makes it self governing with the UK only handling defense and foreign affairs.
So basically the UK and Gibraltar can't even agree on what exactly Gibraltar is (besides tax heaven and an illegal traffic paradise). This is like two small time crooks are caught red-handed by the police and giving contradicting excuses.
US statehood for Puerto Rico is a dream, just a dream. The time to make Puerto Rico a US state came and went, annexation plans failed miserably in the first half of the 20th century, history books tell it all. Puerto Ricans are a nationality that refused to assimilate, that is why after decades in a limbo the island is moving slowly towards the true development of the present status which is moving towards a sovereignty option. Under Spain, Puerto Ricans elected its own government in 1898, Luis Muñoz Rivera was the governor of the province and the island also had full voting representation in the spanish congress, the US invaded the island and overthrow the elected goverment of Luis Muñoz Rivera while pushed the island into almost 50 years of colonial dictatorship and cultural repression, pushed a foreign language that was rejected, tried without success to put down catholicism by erasing the Three Kings Day celebration, changed the name of the island to a ridiculous name that meant nothing ''Porto Rico'' because those in charge of the regime were unable to pronounce the word 'Puerto' correctly, stripped puerto ricans first of their spanish citizenship and then denied them of their puerto rican citizenship and then 20 years later imposed a statutory US citizenship in 1917 so puerto rican men could be sent into war, it was not until 1948 that puerto ricans elected another puerto rican: Jose T. Piñero. I have no doubt Puerto Rico will become a sovereign nation, the national identity of Puerto Ricans is too strong, people do not want to become a permanent minority of the US and most see with horror how Hawaiians lost their culture and language to become a minority in their own land, same with New Mexico. The US also does not want or care about making PR a state either, they do not want a future Quebec, Northen Ireland or Catalunya inside their union, they also know the real reason why some people vote for statehood: chronic welfare, a product of their own making: the do not work-do not study-do not care crowd, the ''mantenidos'', no ''patriotic'' reason at all.
The Sovereign Commonwealth (ELA Soberano) is the best option for PR and it is the best way for US to finally put an end to their colonial 'territorial' imperial adventure chapter, it that has no place in the 21st century. the ELA Soberano is the option that favors the new elected mayor of San Juan and many others in the present governing party, it is the same free association status that the Republic of Palau has, then after the treaty is over PR can move on its own as an independent nation or even return to mother Spain, or sign the treaty for another 25 years.
US statehood for Puerto Rico is a dream, just a dream. The time to make Puerto Rico a US state came and went, annexation plans failed miserably in the first half of the 20th century, history books tell it all. Puerto Ricans are a nationality that refused to assimilate, that is why after decades in a limbo the island is moving slowly towards the true development of the present status which is moving towards a sovereignty option. Under Spain, Puerto Ricans elected its own government in 1898, Luis Muñoz Rivera was the governor of the province and the island also had full voting representation in the spanish congress, the US invaded the island and overthrow the elected goverment of Luis Muñoz Rivera while pushed the island into almost 50 years of colonial dictatorship and cultural repression, pushed a foreign language that was rejected, tried without success to put down catholicism by erasing the Three Kings Day celebration, changed the name of the island to a ridiculous name that meant nothing ''Porto Rico'' because those in charge of the regime were unable to pronounce the word 'Puerto' correctly, stripped puerto ricans first of their spanish citizenship and then denied them of their puerto rican citizenship and then 20 years later imposed a statutory US citizenship in 1917 so puerto rican men could be sent into war, it was not until 1948 that puerto ricans elected another puerto rican: Jose T. Piñero. I have no doubt Puerto Rico will become a sovereign nation, the national identity of Puerto Ricans is too strong, people do not want to become a permanent minority of the US and most see with horror how Hawaiians lost their culture and language to become a minority in their own land, same with New Mexico. The US also does not want or care about making PR a state either, they do not want a future Quebec, Northen Ireland or Catalunya inside their union, they also know the real reason why some people vote for statehood: chronic welfare, a product of their own making: the do not work-do not study-do not care crowd, the ''mantenidos'', no ''patriotic'' reason at all.
The Sovereign Commonwealth (ELA Soberano) is the best option for PR and it is the best way for US to finally put an end to their colonial 'territorial' imperial adventure chapter, it that has no place in the 21st century. the ELA Soberano is the option that favors the new elected mayor of San Juan and many others in the present governing party, it is the same free association status that the Republic of Palau has, then after the treaty is over PR can move on its own as an independent nation or even return to mother Spain, or sign the treaty for another 25 years.
LOL the same Palau that has zero economic activity besides the handouts they receive from the US? The same Palau that is 16 times poorer than Puerto Rico currently is?
Free association has been a total disaster in every place it's been tried.
FAS can't maintain their present standard of living without the rent (for military operations) and aid from the U.S.
Despite having financial assistance from the U.S., and afforded by using the U.S. dollar as their national currency, the protection of the U.S. military and access to the U.S. market, FAS have been unable to attract foreign investment or advance their economic development. This financial help from the U.S. has been FAS' main source of income, with FAS governments being the largest benefi-ciaries so far.
Quote:
FAS economies are relatively simple. Funds received from the U.S. are their only primary income source. The funds are used primarily to pay government wages, salaries and benefits, with another portion to develop public infrastructure.
Palau's per capita gross domestic product (GDP) in 2008 was $7,600, in the RMI $2,500 and $2,200 for the FSM, compared to about $24,000 in Puerto Rico.
FAS' economic dependency has converted the limited private sector into a secondary market that is dependent on the public sector. The government plays a critical role in FAS economies and has been the main employer for decades. Not only it is the provider of basic public services, but is also expected to be the provider of income and work security of the last resort.
Quote:
FAS citizens entering the U.S. now need to carry a passport, and the U.S. attorney general has the authority to issue regulations specifying the conditions of their admission into the U.S., according to a General Accountability Office report. Furthermore, naturalized citizens of the FAS are, with certain limited exceptions, noneligible for visa-free admission into the U.S.
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW sounds like the perfect option!!!!!!!!
There's a reason why the PPD leadership opposes this fairy tale ... it doesent work.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
