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If some day Puerto Rico became an independent country what would you consider to be a good political and economic blueprint for the country to follow?
Puerto Rico would initially start off bad, first becoming independent, without never having guidance and the initial building blocks to a successful independent nation, and the majority of the population being dependent on the US in some way, most of PR current wealth GDP is thru the help of the US and many of its resources get extracted by the US.
However, I think the majority of PR independence supporters would rather an independent Puerto Rico to model Cuba or pre-Maduro Venezuela, due to most of them being liberal and having socialist ideas.
initially? NO. That would be the best short part in a socialist state. It gets worse much worse with time. What Independentistas (many living in the states like Carmen Yulin) are fooling themselves is how to run the system without federal funds and matching funds and without American CREDIT or economic protection by a beast which is the U.S. economy.
See, you can't buy a ham in this world's economy without having credit and to have your own credit you need production which P.R. doesn't have. Not in a way to keep their current standard of living which with all their shortcomings is a lot higher than any Latin Republic.
People are not stupid. That's why independence is rejected by 97% of the population in the island for decades. Like I said and the majority of Puerto Ricans think the same, We rather be the tail of a Lion than the head of a mouse in the top of the food chain.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 01-18-2022 at 11:20 AM..
I think that its been established that PR isn't considered to be part of the USA. No way that Trump could dare to be so condescending to a state with a population of 3.4 million.
I beg the difference. Puerto Rico are U.S. Citizens, are under the protection of the U.S. economy and American credit and rights under the U.S. Constitution and more Ricans live in the states than in P.R. If that isn't part of the U.S. I don't know what it.
You wrote this in 2017. I hope your TDS has pass since Biden is President. I guess the Puerto Rico status was never discuss before Trump. Build back better under Biden. I guess Puerto Rico is fixed.
I beg the difference. Puerto Rico are U.S. Citizens, are under the protection of the U.S. economy and American credit and rights under the U.S. Constitution and more Ricans live in the states than in P.R. If that isn't part of the U.S. I don't know what it.
You wrote this in 2017. I hope your TDS has pass since Biden is President. I guess the Puerto Rico status was never discuss before Trump. Build back better under Biden. I guess Puerto Rico is fixed.
Like I said no one wants PR as a state which is why Biden says nothing on this. PR needs to figure out how they are going to thrive on the existing status quo. No statehood as they are seen as beggars and no independence as Puerto Ricans clearly don't want it.
And no one wants to answer the question. If PR becomes a state and income tax is paid to the IRS and remains with the Federal gov't how will the state of PR fund itself? More taxes?
Like I said no one wants PR as a state which is why Biden says nothing on this. PR needs to figure out how they are going to thrive on the existing status quo. No statehood as they are seen as beggars and no independence as Puerto Ricans clearly don't want it.
And no one wants to answer the question. If PR becomes a state and income tax is paid to the IRS and remains with the Federal gov't how will the state of PR fund itself? More taxes?
*No one? So you spoke to all the 340 million people in the U.S. and P.R. and the majority told you: No statehood in any scenario? amazing. The people that matters are the elites running our government. The deep state. They will decide when P.R. enters as a member in the union.
* Biden has 1 year in office and many things on his plate than Puerto Rico. There is a saying in P.R. that goes: "Puerto Rico no es el ombligo del mundo" it translate to: P.R. isn't the center of the Universe or the U.S. but in Puerto Rican terms so don't try to translate it word for word because it wouldn't make sense to outsiders.
* Who views Puerto Rico as beggars without knowing the facts? Their GDP is 112.3 billion a year which ranks them #88 in the world. Per Capita is $35,943 that ranks 40th in the world and the highest out of all Latin Countries including the big boys like Brazil, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Chile. They have the highest purchasing power than any Latin country or any island in the Caribbean. I know 65% countries in the world would love to have those numbers. An island of 130 x 35 miles with limited resources with those numbers is ridiculous good.
* The same way the 50 states entered a Union and were integrated fully to the tax system. There are good taxes that grows the economy and bad taxes that limits growth. That's more complex and for another topic. It can be done. All 50 states proved it. If they can do it for a small island in Hawaii which is in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific and with limited resources then you can for P.R.
* you are comparing territory numbers to states when is not on the same level and apple to oranges. Many of the 37 territories had weaker numbers than Puerto Rico before they became states.
* You know the Union of the United States is like the European Union. They share a currency, trade, transport, travel, jobs, health, security, justice, single market, banking, credit, business, energy, food and farming and many other things. The EU has small countries like Malta, Lithuania, Slovenia that on their own have way lower numbers than Puerto Rico. The input of the bigger countries like Germany, Italy and France makes up for the smaller members making the union strong with a strong currency.
* State is the best option for P.R. and making them full members of the Union but being a Territory is not the end of the world and a lot better status than a Republic on their own. That's is not a priority. It's better to be the tail of a Lion than the head of a mouse.
European Union: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden.
Malta is way smaller than Puerto Rico. They all share the same currency, trade, transport, travel, jobs, health, security, justice, single market, banking, credit, business, energy, food and farming and many other things and their union and currency are strong. Each of those countries in the EU are different sizes, different cultures, different languages, different GDP's but by sharing everything in the union everybody benefits including the smallest one Malta.
Puerto Rico already has the same American currency, trade, transport, travel, jobs, health, security, justice, single market, banking, credit, business, energy, food and farming and many other things. So it wouldn't be much of a transition making them a member of the American Union. As a matter of fact, it would be easier than an independent European country entering the EU because everything chances for them not with Puerto Rico. They have been a U.S. territory with U.S. citizenship for over a century and more Puerto Ricans live in the states than the island so the transition wouldn't be much.
The Europeans are more globalists than the United States when it comes sharing power in their union and the states more nationalists than Europe. Both sides have their political issues and one of the main blocks is States giving power in Congress for a new member. Nobody is willing to give that up plus the political atmosphere in P.R. is pretty much divided and that gives an excuse for Congress to punt the ball since they have bigger things to do but there is no question the Feds treats Puerto Rico as one of their own in everything federal. So it makes sense for both sides to let P.R. in the Union as a member. It's a matter of time, maybe not in my lifetime but everything is set up for a quick transition.
*No one? So you spoke to all the 340 million people in the U.S. and P.R. and the majority told you: No statehood in any scenario? amazing. The people that matters are the elites running our government. The deep state. They will decide when P.R. enters as a member in the union.
* Biden has 1 year in office and many things on his plate than Puerto Rico. There is a saying in P.R. that goes: "Puerto Rico no es el ombligo del mundo" it translate to: P.R. isn't the center of the Universe or the U.S. but in Puerto Rican terms so don't try to translate it word for word because it wouldn't make sense to outsiders.
* Who views Puerto Rico as beggars without knowing the facts? Their GDP is 112.3 billion a year which ranks them #88 in the world. Per Capita is $35,943 that ranks 40th in the world and the highest out of all Latin Countries including the big boys like Brazil, Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina and Chile. They have the highest purchasing power than any Latin country or any island in the Caribbean. I know 65% countries in the world would love to have those numbers. An island of 130 x 35 miles with limited resources with those numbers is ridiculous good.
* The same way the 50 states entered a Union and were integrated fully to the tax system. There are good taxes that grows the economy and bad taxes that limits growth. That's more complex and for another topic. It can be done. All 50 states proved it. If they can do it for a small island in Hawaii which is in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific and with limited resources then you can for P.R.
* you are comparing territory numbers to states when is not on the same level and apple to oranges. Many of the 37 territories had weaker numbers than Puerto Rico before they became states.
* You know the Union of the United States is like the European Union. They share a currency, trade, transport, travel, jobs, health, security, justice, single market, banking, credit, business, energy, food and farming and many other things. The EU has small countries like Malta, Lithuania, Slovenia that on their own have way lower numbers than Puerto Rico. The input of the bigger countries like Germany, Italy and France makes up for the smaller members making the union strong with a strong currency.
* State is the best option for P.R. and making them full members of the Union but being a Territory is not the end of the world and a lot better status than a Republic on their own. That's is not a priority. It's better to be the tail of a Lion than the head of a mouse.
People see PR in the same way as the see DR and no one is clamoring for DR to become part of the USA. Since Maria all of the problems of PR have become obvious to Americans and they want no part of it.
When last did the USA add a new state? 1959! At that time US assets in the middle of the Pacific and just across from the USSR was a major benefit. What strategic role does PR play to offset the clear burden that it will present to US taxpayers?
I see that you "forgot" to tell us where is the "State of Puerto Rico" going to raise revenues, given that income tax, now paid to them will be redirected to the IRS. There is an assumption that the PR senators and congressional reps will go to DC and wail poverty and then largesse will fall into their hands. Note that issuing bonds isnt a route given that no one will be rushing to buy PR bonds. The PR gov't spends money, so how will this be funded when a major part of their revenue is redirected. If the State of PR levies taxes to offset income tax revenues redirected to the IRS how will that impact the economy?
Just accept status quo because that is all that will happen.
That language issue is going to be HUGE! Is Hawaiian a major language in that state? No its ENGLISH! Spanish in TX?
The joke is your politics probably most mirrors the GOP yet the prospects of 3 million Spanish speakers terrifies most of their base, and you know fully well that there are a ton of people in PR whose English doesnt meet the standards of fluency that most statesiders demand.
People see PR in the same way as the see DR and no one is clamoring for DR to become part of the USA. Since Maria all of the problems of PR have become obvious to Americans and they want no part of it.
When last did the USA add a new state? 1959! At that time US assets in the middle of the Pacific and just across from the USSR was a major benefit. What strategic role does PR play to offset the clear burden that it will present to US taxpayers?
I see that you "forgot" to tell us where is the "State of Puerto Rico" going to raise revenues, given that income tax, now paid to them will be redirected to the IRS. There is an assumption that the PR senators and congressional reps will go to DC and wail poverty and then largesse will fall into their hands. Note that issuing bonds isnt a route given that no one will be rushing to buy PR bonds. The PR gov't spends money, so how will this be funded when a major part of their revenue is redirected. If the State of PR levies taxes to offset income tax revenues redirected to the IRS how will that impact the economy?
Just accept status quo because that is all that will happen.
That language issue is going to be HUGE! Is Hawaiian a major language in that state? No its ENGLISH! Spanish in TX?
The joke is your politics probably most mirrors the GOP yet the prospects of 3 million Spanish speakers terrifies most of their base, and you know fully well that there are a ton of people in PR whose English doesnt meet the standards of fluency that most statesiders demand.
So you speak for 340 million Americans? They view P.R. as D.R.? o.k. Maria is past history and the U.S. has a 1,000 things on their plate than P.R. Have you seen the American media and C-SPAN recently? Puerto Rico is not Top 100 topic.
Puerto Rico GDP is $112.273 billion and a per capita $35,943, the highest in any Latin country. For an island of 130 x 35 miles that is very amazing. Those numbers are a lot higher than many of the U.S. territories that entered later the union. For you to say the U.S. can't take revenues out of those numbers is mind boggling.
My politics mirrors the conservative ideology of limited government and pro private sector. That's a change for the better than the center-left politics that have tied down the Puerto Rican economy for 80 years. I speak for myself and not for all Puerto Ricans because they are all over the place and for sure I don't speak for 340 million Americans that are also all over the place on steroids but I know for sure that your argument that Puerto Ricans are not compatible with the U.S. economy and not compatible with America civics when more Puerto Ricans live on the mainland than the island is a false myth.
Funny, most Cuban-Americans are Republicans and a huge part why Florida is a Republican state. I don't see the Republican party rejecting Cuban Americans or making them victims or dependents on the government because they speak Spanish.
Again, statehood is NOT a right because it requires both sides to agree in a treaty just like Independence. The difference is statehood is a lot closer than Independence by a galaxy distance.
The whole "PR will turn into Haiti" is such a lazy argument for those who are against independence. PR if they want can use the Bahamas as a model. The Bahamas which has strong USA support towards its economy if I'm not mistaken.
The whole "PR will turn into Haiti" is such a lazy argument for those who are against independence. PR if they want can use the Bahamas as a model. The Bahamas which has strong USA support towards its economy if I'm not mistaken.
Haiti? You could have pick any Latin country with close economy, close culture, language and history to P.R. but you picked a country that speak a different language, different history and different culture with the lowest economy, you don't think that by itself is a lazy argument?
The Bahamas are 90% blacks, over 70% Protestants, only 400k people in the island. The Bahamas is a parliamentary constitutional monarchy, with the Queen of the Bahamas (British Queen Elizabeth II) as head of state represented locally by governor. Political and legal traditions closely follow those of England. They have strong ties with Britain.
Their main economy is tourism. They have 3 million less people than P.R. so it works for their small size.
Puerto Rico Average salary is $1,950 monthly Bahamas $1,750 monthly
Mortgage interest rates: P.R. 4.8% Bahamas 7.2%
Gasoline: P.R. $ 3.33 Bahamas $4.91
Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $24,400 Bahamas $37,800
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $26,000 Bahamas $28,000
Basic (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 915 sq ft Apartment is 10% cheaper in Puerto Rico
Milk is $ 7.16 P.R. Bahamas $ 12.70
Consumer Prices in Nassau are 27.13% higher than in San Juan (without rent)Consumer Prices Including Rent in Nassau are 23.64% higher than in San Juan Rent Prices in Nassau are 15.39% higher than in San Juan
Groceries Prices in Nassau are 4.41% higher than in San Juan Local Purchasing Power in Nassau is 28.04% lower than in San Juan.
Explain to me how you convince people in P.R. that they are better off out of the U.S. umbrella when the numbers doesn't back it up?
You can pick the 3 best Latin Republic countries in the Americas: Brazil, Mexico and Argentina and as an individual, the numbers comes inferior to Puerto Rico to the average person. The majority of Puerto Ricans aren't trading what they have now to the 3 countries I mentioned. Nobody is going to downgrade on their own.
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So you spoke to all the 340 million people in the U.S. and P.R. and the majority told you: No statehood in any scenario? amazing. The people that matters are the elites running our government. The deep state. They will decide when P.R. enters as a member in the union.
