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Old 03-05-2018, 12:09 AM
 
1,803 posts, read 731,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
they must allow outsiders to control the decisions that impact their fate.

George Orwell would love you.
Actually no. I don't think outsiders should have any control nor responsibility for anything that happens in Puerto Rico. That's what independence is about. That's why letting them be a sovereign nation is for their own good.

Last edited by Tritone; 03-05-2018 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 03-05-2018, 01:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Actually no. I don't think outsiders should have any control nor responsibility for anything that happens in Puerto Rico. That's what independence is about. That's why letting them be a sovereign nation is for their own good.


So anybody that is outside of the state within the nation is an outsider? lol

States are sovereign under a federal union. A nation of 51 sovereign states is a lot stronger than an independent banana republic island in the Carribean.....do you think?


our own good? LMAO!!!! so now you speak for 8 million plus Puerto Ricans on the planet? amazing!


can you tell me the lotto numbers for next week, I would appreciate it since you know what's good for me.
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Old 03-05-2018, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Tijuana Exurbs
3,861 posts, read 10,091,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Or, maybe the U.S. should forgive every single penny of Puerto Rico's debt, and turn over all Federal assets -- heck, I'd even throw in an all-expenses paid upgrade of the electricity grid -- and in return, Puerto Rico gets to be an independent country, or someone else's territory, and off the United States' dole for good.

Because, honestly, I'm having a hard time seeing just how having Puerto Rico as a United States territory benefits the United States.
I used to support statehood for Puerto Rico (about 40 years ago), but Bus Man's is the position I hold now, less the crack about being on the dole. Like Bus Man, I would make Puerto Rico independent and send it off with generous parting gifts such as paying off its $70b public debt. That would be about $20k per person.

I'd hope the voters of a newly independent P.R. would be smart enough not to vote in a Socialist government, but if they did, the consequences would be all on them.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:09 AM
 
9,067 posts, read 3,057,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot View Post
I used to support statehood for Puerto Rico (about 40 years ago), but Bus Man's is the position I hold now, less the crack about being on the dole. Like Bus Man, I would make Puerto Rico independent and send it off with generous parting gifts such as paying off its $70b public debt. That would be about $20k per person.

I'd hope the voters of a newly independent P.R. would be smart enough not to vote in a Socialist government, but if they did, the consequences would be all on them.



^^^^another one ignoring the constitution and the law.....how would you strip millions of U.S. citizens of their citizenship by force. How would you make the U.S. Supreme Court change their ruling, offer them 20k each?

That's like a person from Texas saying they would make Hawaii independent by force and send them off with a 20k check for each resident. They would be laughed at.

Let's ignore the Constitution, the law, and the Supreme Court and act like we are in a nation with no laws and no constitution and no S.C.: Let's say Kettlepot is in charge of Congres and cuts a check for each resident for 20k and declares P.R. a Republic and bails out P.R. like they did Saigon in 1975 and handed over to the new Republic government and close down every federal agency and federal aid in P.R. including the Post Office. ALL you will be doing is forcing the majority on the island to take a 1-way ticket plane to the states and put the burden on the states. Most likely Florida.

the airport in P.R. would look like this the day congress declares P.R. a banana Republic times a million:

https://static.standard.co.uk/s3fs-p...cityaiport.jpg
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:33 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,115,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot View Post
I used to support statehood for Puerto Rico (about 40 years ago), but Bus Man's is the position I hold now, less the crack about being on the dole. Like Bus Man, I would make Puerto Rico independent and send it off with generous parting gifts such as paying off its $70b public debt. That would be about $20k per person.

I'd hope the voters of a newly independent P.R. would be smart enough not to vote in a Socialist government, but if they did, the consequences would be all on them.
And what about the 95% of Puerto Ricans who oppose independence?

At some point you people are going to have to accept that Puerto Ricans don't want independence and no amount of bribes is going to change that. Time to move on. You can't claim to support democracy and force other people to do something against their will. This would be like me declaring Jill Stein to be the president just *because*. That's not how it works.

Also, like Hellion said ... the vast majority of the population would leave for the mainland before independence went into effect. You wouldn't be saving any money. What's the difference between a transfer check to Florida and a transfer check to Puerto Rico? None. It's the same amount of money. So basically you want to force Puerto Rico to become independent just for spite? Why? What's the point?

Last edited by WIHS2006; 03-06-2018 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:49 PM
 
1,803 posts, read 731,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
So anybody that is outside of the state within the nation is an outsider? lol
Puerto Rico is not a state. It's a Latin American country that belongs to the United States.

Quote:
A nation of 51 sovereign states is a lot stronger than an independent banana republic island in the Carribean.....do you think?
No, having 51 states does not make us any stronger. I don't want to debate the difference between state soverignty and that of independent nations, but what I do know is that we don't gain anything by absorbing a banana republic island in the Carribean.

I honestly believe that Puerto and the U.S would both mutually benefit from their independence.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:07 PM
 
1,803 posts, read 731,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
At some point you people are going to have to accept that Puerto Ricans don't want independence and no amount of bribes is going to change that.
What we have now is a completely disfunctional Island that we keep dumping money on. The more money we throw at Puerto Rico, the worse it gets - most of that money just goes to waste. The situation is not working. This cannot go on into perpetuity.

Last edited by Sunscape; 03-07-2018 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Puerto Rico is not a state. It's a Latin American country that belongs to the United States.

Puerto Rico is not a state? very good!....it's a U.S. TERRITORY and all of its residents are NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZENS.

You know the definition of citizenship? is the status of a person recognized under the custom or law as being a legal member of a sovereign state or belonging to a nation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
No, having 51 states does not make us any stronger. I don't want to debate the difference between state soverignty and that of independent nations, but what I do know is that we don't gain anything by absorbing a banana republic island in the Carribean.
please do debate it since you are on a roll and should tell us what is best for us......the U.S. already absorbed that banana republic island in the Carribean in 1898 and by making them a U.S. Territory and giving them full American natural born citizenship.....you are 100 years late to the party my friend.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
I honestly believe that Puerto and the U.S would both mutually benefit from their independence.

what you believe is unimportant to reality. You have over 8 million Puerto Ricans in the world with full Natural Born American Citizenship that are part of the nation of the U.S.A. whether you like it or not. That's reality not your honest believes.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:25 PM
 
9,067 posts, read 3,057,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
At some point Puerto Ricans are just going to have to accept the fact that congress doesn't want them as a state. That's never going to happen, no matter how many straw polls they have. .

maybe.....maybe not......but the FACT is, all Puerto Ricans are Natural Born American citizens. That's not an opinion, that is a FACT. We have more Puerto Ricans living in the 50 states than on the island.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
What we have now is a completely disfunctional Island that we keep dumping money on. The more money we throw at Puerto Rico, the worse it gets - most of that money just goes to waste. The situation is not working. This cannot go on into perpetuity.

yeah you could say the same thing about lots of things Congress dumps money on.....of all the wasteful dollars congress throws at from foreign countries, military bases, endless occupations, endless wars and that's just foreign, on domestic you have another long list, Puerto Rico doesn't make the top 30 list.

but that doesn't change the fact that all Puerto Ricans are Natural Born American citizens for life and they are part of the U.S.A regardless how congress spends.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:07 PM
 
1,803 posts, read 731,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
but that doesn't change the fact that all Puerto Ricans are Natural Born American citizens for life and they are part of the U.S.A.
That is something that can change. As much as you would like to make it seem like it's legally impossible, it's really not.

Puerto Ricans used to be citizens of Spain, but then after Spain abandoned PR they were no longer Spanish citizens.
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