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To blame the slow recovery in Puerto Rico because of lack of electricity for months because of the corruption by The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority (PREPA) on the Republicans or Trump is ignorant and being clueless. The federal government gave 3 times the federal aid to Puerto Rico than Texas and Florida and still that wasn't enough to overcome the corruption in PREPA and other agencies in the island.
it only states that if you are going to transport merchandise or people by air, sea or land between 2 points or more WITHIN the same nation, you must use DOMESTIC transportation and be U.S. Citizens......well ALL Puerto Ricans are U.S. Citizens.
so why doesn't Puerto Rico use the Jones Act to their advantage in those domestic routes?
why doesn't Puerto Rico invest in boats and crew (it could be from the private sector with the government of P..R) to use those domestic routes to bring stuff from the states or stuff from PR to the states ( P.R. hardly produces anything, anyway)
Thanks for drawing attention to the debacle about PREPA, I will have to investigate that further. That´s the beauty of having discussions with people, you always learn. I do however hold firm in my assertion that the response to the storm could have been much better, and that there will be repercussions. Every tragedy can ultimately result in an opportunity if enough resources and a real plan are put into place. It appears that the terriorial government and its entities such as utility companies didn´t respond well, so now what? Insult the populace? Throw some paper towels at a crowd? Sometimes the perception matters more to the voter than the all the miniscule details (like it or not).
The one politican I can think of who make some noise to end the Jones Act was the later senator John McCain. I do think the Jones Act holds huge disadvantages for PR still...Hawaii doesn´t exactly have various independent nations in its backyard like Puerto Rico does, so it´s kind of relying on commerce with the United States no matter what. Doesn´t it seem a little absurd for shipments from countries in the region to go all the way to Florida, unload, load again and come back to finish the transaction? In its current state of affairs, Puerto Rico doesn´t produce much, but maybe we should stop and ask why. Tax incentives can be good if they benefit the populace, which I believe Section 936 did...what a shame that it was dissolved. I´d like to get some perspective on if the tax incentives for the ultra rich to relocate to the island really have any positive effect on the overall economy or not.
1) Obama went to Puerto Rico in 2011 to take political donations from the elite class and corporations in Puerto Rico. He was there for 4 hours, took the money and ate a media noche sandwich with the governor paid by the taxpayers of Puerto Rico and left.
2) To blame the slow recovery in Puerto Rico because of lack of electricity for months because of the corruption by The Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority (PREPA) on the Republicans or Trump is ignorant and being clueless. The federal government gave 3 times the federal aid to Puerto Rico than Texas and Florida and still that wasn't enough to overcome the corruption in PREPA and other agencies in the island.
3) the Island with no power for months slows everything down, it has nothing to do with federal aid.
the FEDS has no authority or say in Puerto Rico's power service and that's the real reason everything took longer for the recovery.
5) Democrats are not going to abolish the Jones Act, Obama supported it, so did Bill Clinton......Hawaii has the Jones Act and Hawaii is in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific and still their economy, commerce and tourism leaves Puerto Rico in the dust.
6) what is the Jone Act?.....it only states that if you are going to transport merchandise or people by air, sea or land between 2 points or more WITHIN the same nation, you must use DOMESTIC transportation and be U.S. Citizens......well ALL Puerto Ricans are U.S. Citizens.
so why doesn't Puerto Rico use the Jones Act to their advantage in those domestic routes?
why doesn't Puerto Rico invest in boats and crew (it could be from the private sector with the government of P..R) to use those domestic routes to bring stuff from the states or stuff from PR to the states ( P.R. hardly produces anything, anyway)
the Jones Act guarantees ONLY U.S. Citizens can use those domestic routes, so why not take advantage of the law? you won't get foreign competition for those routes.
one more time, the Jones Act only says if you are going to transport merchandise or people by SEA, AIR or LAND from 2 points or more WITHIN the same nation you must use DOMESTIC transportation and the transportation be done by U.S. Citizens.
Puerto Ricans are U.S. Citizens......so they can use those domestic routes to their benefit. That means they DON'T have to compete with foreign countries for those routes. So why not take advantage of that?
Did you know that Puerto Rico took advantage of that in the 70's. The Puerto Rican government invested in their own fleet to take advantage of the Jones Act. It was called Las Navieras de Puerto Rico (PUERTO RICO MARITIME SHIPPING AUTHORITY)......guess what happened?
the government of Puerto Rico ran it as the Telephone Company which was losing money and had to sell and the Electric company which is losing money with corruption and political hacks and it went bankrupt in the 80's and now the same political class that bankrupted the fleet are the same people telling us that if they just get rid of the Jones Act everything will be fine.
Las Navieras of Puerto Rico should have been privatized but instead the government bankrupted it with corruption and political hacks and it died. See a pattern here with the Puerto Rican government?
one more time, the Jones Act only says if you are going to transport merchandise or people by SEA, AIR or LAND from 2 points or more WITHIN the same nation you must use DOMESTIC transportation and the transportation be done by U.S. Citizens.
Puerto Ricans are U.S. Citizens......so they can use those domestic routes to their benefit. That means they DON'T have to compete with foreign countries for those routes. So why not take advantage of that?
Did you know that Puerto Rico took advantage of that in the 70's. The Puerto Rican government invested in their own fleet to take advantage of the Jones Act. It was called Las Navieras de Puerto Rico (PUERTO RICO MARITIME SHIPPING AUTHORITY)......guess what happened?
the government of Puerto Rico ran it as the Telephone Company which was losing money and had to sell and the Electric company which is losing money with corruption and political hacks and it went bankrupt in the 80's and now the same political class that bankrupted the fleet are the same people telling us that if they just get rid of the Jones Act everything will be fine.
Las Navieras of Puerto Rico should have been privatized but instead the government bankrupted it with corruption and political hacks and it died. See a pattern here with the Puerto Rican government?
^ this
This talk about the Jones Act is mainly the result of Puerto Ricans refusing to accept that their actions played a major role in causing the current debt/fiscal crisis. Most namely:
1) The x2 overtime pay on normally scheduled workdays that happen to fall on a holiday or weekend. That's a huge hit to business owners.
2) The mandatory Christmas bonus of minimum specified amounts according to each worker's annual salary. Another huge hit to those looking to run a business. Yeah, you can't just give our employee's an extra $100 and be done with it ... you have to give at least a certain amount. Imagine if I had a birthday birthday, forced you to come and demanded that you give me a gift of at least $100? That's basically Puerto Rico's anti-business climate.
3) The underground economy. Many people simply aren't paying their fair share. The Hacienda has a tax collection rate far lower than the national average.
if I tell you, there are job contracts worth billions of dollars a year but only U.S. Citizens that are qualified can get those job contracts, NO foreigners allow to apply or get those contracts.
is that a benefit for us U.S. Citizens or a disadvantage?
well, in the United States, we have domestic routes, from New York to LA, San Francisco to Hawaii, Florida to Puerto Rico, Puerto Rico to any port in the states and so on......the Jones Act only demands if you are going to transport merchandise or people by air, sea or land WITHIN 2 points or more in the same nation you must use DOMESTIC transportation and by U.S. Citizens
how is that a disadvantage for Puerto Ricans? We are U.S. Citizens!!! Use the law to our advantage. Where is the Puerto Rican fleet and crew to use those domestic routes that don't have to compete with foreign countries?
if somebody tells me only you and people from your country can use all lanes on a highway and nobody in the world can, how is that a disadvantage to me?
I do think the Jones Act holds huge disadvantages for PR still...Hawaii doesn´t exactly have various independent nations in its backyard like Puerto Rico does, so it´s kind of relying on commerce with the United States no matter what. Doesn´t it seem a little absurd for shipments from countries in the region to go all the way to Florida, unload, load again and come back to finish the transaction? In its current state of affairs, Puerto Rico doesn´t produce much, but maybe we should stop and ask why. Tax incentives can be good if they benefit the populace, which I believe Section 936 did...what a shame that it was dissolved. I´d like to get some perspective on if the tax incentives for the ultra rich to relocate to the island really have any positive effect on the overall economy or not.
that's a misconception. Hawaii doesn't just rely upon their commerce with the United States no matter what. Port of Honolulu, Hawaii’s trade totaled $497.57 million for the month of July, $2.47 billion through July of 2018, and $3.62 billion for all of 2017.
1) Indonesia
2) Japan
3) Lybia
4) South Korea
5) Russia
6) China
7) Vietnam
8) Singapore
9) Taiwan
do you see the Jones Act hurting Hawaii' economy and commerce with the rest of the world? I don't, their numbers are very solid and tell the truth.
going back to another misconception on the Jones Act and Puerto Rico. Foreign ships around the area don't have to go all the way to Florida, unload, load again and come back to finish the transaction. That's not how it works.
Foreign ships can go directly to Puerto Rico and unload their cargos just like in Hawaii. What they can't do is go to Puerto Rico drop cargo and then go to Florida drop cargo and then go to New York and drop cargo...those are domestic routes.
foreign ships can drop their cargos at 1 U.S. port that's it!!! from there if it needs to be taken to other points within the country, that is DOMESTIC transportation.
so if Japan drops a cargo load in Hawaii, they can't go from Hawaii to Los Angeles to keep dropping cargo like they are UPS or FED EX, they have to drop it off in 1 American spot and let the American domestic transportation take care of the rest.
this is very simple to understand.
when you write a letter in Japan and want to deliver it to Puerto Rico, well you use the post office of JAPAN, Japan in 1 big load drops all of their mail that goes to the USA using their boats or planes and drops it off in 1 port or airport....from there the U.S. post office takes control and use their domestic transportation to deliver it the mail to its destinations call DOMESTIC ROUTES, which Puerto Rico falls under the U.S.
The Jones Act is not an EMBARGO that foreign ships are not allow to drop cargo to Puerto Rico or Hawaii directly and return.
now Puerto Ricans and their boats and crew can use ALL the domestic routes anytime they want no limits. They can take cargo from P.R. and drop it off in Florida, then go to New York and drop it off, they can pick up cargo in New York then go all the way around the Panama Canal and go to Los Angeles and drop cargo and then go to Hawaii and drop cargo and pick up Hawaii pineapples and return to Puerto Rico........perfectly legal under the Jones ACT.....Foreign countries can't do that.
Last edited by Hellion1999; 09-20-2018 at 02:44 PM..
1) The x2 overtime pay on normally scheduled workdays that happen to fall on a holiday or weekend. That's a huge hit to business owners.
2) The mandatory Christmas bonus of minimum specified amounts according to each worker's annual salary. Another huge hit to those looking to run a business. Yeah, you can't just give our employee's an extra $100 and be done with it ... you have to give at least a certain amount. Imagine if I had a birthday birthday, forced you to come and demanded that you give me a gift of at least $100? That's basically Puerto Rico's anti-business climate.
3) The underground economy. Many people simply aren't paying their fair share. The Hacienda has a tax collection rate far lower than the national average.
Hawaii has the Jones Act......they are in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific, meaning it cost more in fuel to import and export to the U.S. and other countries from into and out of Hawai and still Hawaii's economy and exports numbers are solid. It leaves P.R. in the dust from tourism to exports/ imports to other countries.
Port of Honolulu, Hawaii’s trade with the world rose 22.11 percent, from $2.03 billion to $2.47 billion through the first seven months of 2018 when compared to the same period the previous year, according to WorldCity analysis of the latest U.S. Census Bureau data.
During the same time period, the nation’s total trade was $2.41 trillion, with exports at $963.32 billion and imports at $1.45 trillion. The nation’s total trade increased 9.31 percent compared to the same period last year. Exports rose 9.51 percent and imports rose 9.17 percent.
Port of Honolulu, Hawaii ranked No. 100 for total trade among the nation’s roughly 450 airports, seaports, and border crossings through July of 2018. During the same period of 2017, it ranked No. 101. It finished No. 98 in the last full year.
The nation’s top five “ports” — airports, seaports, and border crossings — so far this year, by value, are Port of Los Angeles; Port Laredo; Chicago O’Hare International Airport; John F. Kennedy International Airport and Port of Newark.
Through July Port of Honolulu, Hawaii’s were No. 1 Indonesia, No. 2 Japan, No. 3 Libya, No. 4 South Korea and No. 5 Russia. Through the same period of the previous year, the were held by Indonesia, Japan, Libya, China, and Russia.
When you hear people say take out the JONES act for P.R. and the economy will rise, they have no clue what they are talking about and how it works and most of them are in P.R., the same political class that has created the mess in the island spreading falsehoods in the island.
Anyone else have an idea about policies to improve the state of affairs on the island? How can this tragedy be converted to an opportunity?
Watching the NECN news on tv today, an older man in PR was interviewed about life after Hurricane Maria. And it was mentioned that part of the problems for FEMA was that these people in these devastated shantytowns don't have deeds to where they live. This old man lives in the same house that his parents used to live in, but there is no official paperwork connecting him to this longtime family dwelling. His family basically has squatted in the same place for many decades.
So it seems to me what the Puerto Rican government needs to do is map out these shantytowns and give out deeds to the longtime residents there. Let these people have some equity and also incentive to fixing up their homes properly.
And it's sad that these people are waiting for FEMA to replace their broken corrugated metal roofs. Again, I am upset that the Puerto Rican government chose to pay George Washington University $300k to count how many people died because of Hurricane Maria instead of buying roofing materials for their people. $300K wouldn't fix all of their roofs, but it would have made a big and real improvement in the quality of life for these people, instead the Puerto Rican government would rather do nothing but complain about Trump and FEMA's actions.
It's very difficult to want to give more aid to Puerto Rico when it appears that their government is not doing anything concrete to help their own people out. IMO the Puerto Rican government should be doing more to help their own island, then asking FEMA for additional help. I don't think that FEMA should be expected to do ALL of the rebuilding.
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