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Old 01-28-2019, 06:55 AM
 
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Why in Puerto Rico politicians and people blame the Jones Act for their problems and blame that on why cars are more expensive in the island than in the mainland and never look deeper to the problem. Every time I turn on the news in the island they keep repeating the false propaganda.

All the Jones Act says is that if you are going to transport merchandise or people by sea, air or land between 2 points or more in the same nation you have to use domestic transportation.

The Jones Act apply to Alaska and Hawaii the same as Puerto Rico. Let's look at facts:

Puerto Rico is 1,015 miles from Florida.

Hawaii is 2,534 miles from California

Alaska is 3,100 miles from California


That means it cost more fuel to ship to Alaska and Hawaii from the mainland than from mainland to P.R.



Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) cost in Hawaii $20,914.......Alaska
$20,500 and in Puerto Rico $22,473



Volkswagen Golf Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) in Alaska cost $25,000, Hawaii cost $26,000 and Puerto Rico $28,000

The average Salary in Puerto Rico is $2,048 a month. In Alaska is $4,021 and in Hawaii is $3,616. That means the cost of living in Hawaii and Alaska are higher than P.R....... Puerto Rico has 3.4 million people, Alaska has less than 1 million people,and Hawaii has 1.4 million people.......Puerto Rico has more cars per population than Hawaii and Alaska combine. Explain why cars are more expensive in Puerto Rico than Alaska and Hawaii when Puerto Rico is a lot closer to the mainland USA by far in miles? the Jones Act laws applies the same for Hawaii and Alaska like Puerto Rico.....explain the discrepancy


The real answer to that has NOTHING to do with the Jones Act , It has everything to do with the taxes and regulations of the Puerto Rican government and the cost of doing business in Puerto Rico and then the same government and politicians tell the public that the Jones Act is to blame.....it's a hoax down there and people buy it.
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Old 01-28-2019, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Philly
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Hawaii has a very high cost of living which supports the argument that the Jones act is expensive. It is not the sole source of prs problems of course.
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/2...-on-jones-act/
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
Hawaii has a very high cost of living which supports the argument that the Jones act is expensive. It is not the sole source of prs problems of course.
Hawaii, Alaska, territories team up on Jones Act



yes, Hawaii has a Median Household Income of $76,000 it's 3rd highest in the USA. That's going to drive the cost of service on the island. The higher the wages the higher the cost of living, it goes hand in hand.



Hawaii is in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific. It's 2,481 miles to the U.S. mainland. 5,993 to China and 5,652 miles to Australia and 4,413 to Japan.


your article doesn't explain the discrepancy why a Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) cost in Hawaii $20,914 and in Puerto Rico $22,473 and Volkswagen Golf Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) in Hawaii cost $26,000 and Puerto Rico $28,00.


Puerto Rico is only 1,237 miles to mainland USA. That's almost half the miles from Hawaii to the US mainland and still, cars are cheaper in Hawaii than P.R. .....If we go by just the cost of transportation the cars in Puerto Rico should be cheaper than Hawaii and Alaska but it's not.



My point is that there are many factors and variables to explain the cost of living in a place from supply and demand, taxes, tariffs, business regulations in the islands that will determine the FINAL price of a product that consumers are not aware of. Normally when you buy something the only thing in the receipt that shows to the consumer is the sales tax you pay, it doesn't show the other factors how it got to the price. Is not broken down to educate the public. Usually, politicians and businesses like to keep it that way.




a receipt will never show what was the wholesale price that it was purchased originally, it doesn't show the cost of transportation and handling and process, it doesn't show the taxes and tariffs paid to get that product in the island or how the government taxes particular items compared to others. It doesn't show the earnings of the middle man for bringing that product to your house........lots of variables.

Last edited by Hellion1999; 01-28-2019 at 12:36 PM..
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Old 01-29-2019, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Philly
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I don't disagree that there are many factors that influence the price of goods. We cannot rule out that the Jones Act leads to higher prices but it is not the only (or even main) reason PR is struggling. the island has plenty of local laws that keep the price of goods high even when they are produced on the island. It is clearly not the reason why PR has low income since Hawaii has high incomes.
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Old 01-29-2019, 01:35 PM
 
10,095 posts, read 3,412,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
I don't disagree that there are many factors that influence the price of goods. We cannot rule out that the Jones Act leads to higher prices but it is not the only (or even main) reason PR is struggling. the island has plenty of local laws that keep the price of goods high even when they are produced on the island. It is clearly not the reason why PR has low income since Hawaii has high incomes.



Jones Act keeps the domestic routes ONLY to Americans. Aren't Puerto Ricans U.S. Citizens? so why haven't they taken advantage of those domestic routes to their benefit? The law says if you are going to transport merchandise by sea between 2 points or more in the same nation you have to use domestic transportation of American ships with American crew.....so can Puerto Rico own ships and have Puerto Rican crews operating those routes? We are U.S. Citizens......of course.



We have enough outsourcing to China and other countries that have hurt the working class. Why on earth We as Americans want to give up our domestic routes to our global competition and cheap labor and cheap services?





the fact is all countries protect their domestic routes.....China doesn't let Americans or anybody use their domestic routes. That's the reason when U.S. Airlines fly to China or some foreign country they can only go to one point and return or pick up passengers and return. If a passenger wants to go to another point in China they have to change planes and use Chinese mayor Airlines or domestic airlines.




is not going to change, so my point is the politicians in the island should stop complaining about it and stop fooling the public that the Jones Act is the reason for their problems and find solutions on why things are more expensive in the island and wages are low. Alaska and Hawaii have a high cost of living but their wages and median household income are high and those states are further away from the mainland by more than double the miles than Puerto Rico to the mainland.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:38 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,627 posts, read 8,301,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Why in Puerto Rico politicians and people blame the Jones Act for their problems and blame that on why cars are more expensive in the island than in the mainland and never look deeper to the problem. Every time I turn on the news in the island they keep repeating the false propaganda.

All the Jones Act says is that if you are going to transport merchandise or people by sea, air or land between 2 points or more in the same nation you have to use domestic transportation.

The Jones Act apply to Alaska and Hawaii the same as Puerto Rico. Let's look at facts:

Puerto Rico is 1,015 miles from Florida.

Hawaii is 2,534 miles from California

Alaska is 3,100 miles from California


That means it cost more fuel to ship to Alaska and Hawaii from the mainland than from mainland to P.R.



Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) cost in Hawaii $20,914.......Alaska
$20,500 and in Puerto Rico $22,473



Volkswagen Golf Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car) in Alaska cost $25,000, Hawaii cost $26,000 and Puerto Rico $28,000

The average Salary in Puerto Rico is $2,048 a month. In Alaska is $4,021 and in Hawaii is $3,616. That means the cost of living in Hawaii and Alaska are higher than P.R....... Puerto Rico has 3.4 million people, Alaska has less than 1 million people,and Hawaii has 1.4 million people.......Puerto Rico has more cars per population than Hawaii and Alaska combine. Explain why cars are more expensive in Puerto Rico than Alaska and Hawaii when Puerto Rico is a lot closer to the mainland USA by far in miles? the Jones Act laws applies the same for Hawaii and Alaska like Puerto Rico.....explain the discrepancy


The real answer to that has NOTHING to do with the Jones Act , It has everything to do with the taxes and regulations of the Puerto Rican government and the cost of doing business in Puerto Rico and then the same government and politicians tell the public that the Jones Act is to blame.....it's a hoax down there and people buy it.
Simple, it's always easier to blame someone else than it is to look in the mirror and accept responsibility for your own actions.

The biggest obstacle to economic development in Puerto Rico is the labor laws and regulations passed by the territorial government. Period. When Andrew Cuomo's New York manages to look like Texas in comparison to Puerto Rico you know you've badly screwed up.
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Philly
9,859 posts, read 13,793,749 times
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New study confirms the obvious, Jones act drives up the cost of goods, and the less obvious, reduced the volume of trade with the us. It also points out that the study stating the Jones act had no impact was nothing morethan industry propaganda.
Quote:
Dunham also concluded that the Jones Act harms the United States and has not met its intended objectives. The study documents the “dramatic” reduction in employment on U.S. vessels and shipyards since the 1950s and how U.S. producers have lost the Puerto Rico market in terms of bulk merchandise but for which they have strong export markets due to the lack U.S.-flagged ships. Specifically, commodities such as: oil (91 percent from outside the U.S.), grains (97 percent), cement (99 percent), beet sugar (95 percent) and oilseed farming (98.6 percent foreign).
https://caribbeanbusiness.com/studie...t-1-5-billion/
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Old 02-22-2019, 10:10 AM
 
10,095 posts, read 3,412,534 times
Reputation: 4810
a new report released has concluded that the Jones Act actually has no impact on either retail prices or the cost of living in Puerto Rico. The report was produced by economists from Boston-based Reeve & Associates and San Juan-based Estudios Técnicos, Inc, who analyzed the economic impact of the Jones Act by evaluating the competitiveness of freight rates in the United States/Puerto Rico market, the quality of service provided by the Jones Act carriers, and the impact of the carriers’ freight rates on the prices of goods shipped between the United States mainland and Puerto Rico.


Foreign vessels can deliver directly to Puerto Rico from foreign countries.
  • Finding that 57 percent of San Juan’s port traffic in 2016 was carried on foreign vessels, the report noted that there is “nothing in the Jones Act that precludes foreign-flag vessels from serving Puerto Rico directly from foreign countries.”
  • It concluded that there was strong competition between carriers serving the island, stating that “if cargo owners in Puerto Rico believed that the Jones Act shipping services were adding costs that negatively impacted their business, you would expect to see [an increase in foreign flag shipping].”



https://gcaptain.com/new-report-debu...n-puerto-rico/


https://www.americanmaritimepartners...-rico-economy/


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Dominican Republic $56
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 D.R. $54
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 D.R. $89
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 D.R. $96
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 D.R. 24,873
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 D.R. $4.51


The Purchasing Power in Puerto Rico is 285% higher than Dominican Republic.


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Haiti $50
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Haiti $50
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Haiti $150
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Haiti $100
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Haiti $50,000
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 Haiti $3.89


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Bermuda $83
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Bermuda $111
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Bermuda $139
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Bermuda $139
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Bermuda $37,667
Volkswagen Golf (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $28,000 Bermuda $40,000
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 Bermuda $8.01




1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Ecuador $82
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Ecuador $56
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Ecuador $109.51
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Ecuador $95
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Ecuador $31,946
Volkswagen Golf (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $28,000 Ecuador $28,500




Like any country and island in the world there are lots of factors that dictates consumer prices and cost of living from taxes (direct and indirect) supply and demand, Purchasing power, value of the currency, inflation and, business regulations. Putting the primary blame on the Jones Act is just plain lazy by ignoring many factors. Latin Countries don't have the Jones Act like Dominican Republic and import goods and cars are more expensive in D.R. than Puerto Rico and both countries are next to each other. Haiti and Bermuda are the same.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:36 PM
 
106 posts, read 13,984 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
a new report released has concluded that the Jones Act actually has no impact on either retail prices or the cost of living in Puerto Rico. The report was produced by economists from Boston-based Reeve & Associates and San Juan-based Estudios Técnicos, Inc, who analyzed the economic impact of the Jones Act by evaluating the competitiveness of freight rates in the United States/Puerto Rico market, the quality of service provided by the Jones Act carriers, and the impact of the carriers’ freight rates on the prices of goods shipped between the United States mainland and Puerto Rico.


Foreign vessels can deliver directly to Puerto Rico from foreign countries.
  • Finding that 57 percent of San Juan’s port traffic in 2016 was carried on foreign vessels, the report noted that there is “nothing in the Jones Act that precludes foreign-flag vessels from serving Puerto Rico directly from foreign countries.”
  • It concluded that there was strong competition between carriers serving the island, stating that “if cargo owners in Puerto Rico believed that the Jones Act shipping services were adding costs that negatively impacted their business, you would expect to see [an increase in foreign flag shipping].”



https://gcaptain.com/new-report-debu...n-puerto-rico/


https://www.americanmaritimepartners...-rico-economy/


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Dominican Republic $56
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 D.R. $54
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 D.R. $89
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 D.R. $96
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 D.R. 24,873
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 D.R. $4.51


The Purchasing Power in Puerto Rico is 285% higher than Dominican Republic.


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Haiti $50
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Haiti $50
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Haiti $150
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Haiti $100
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Haiti $50,000
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 Haiti $3.89


1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Bermuda $83
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Bermuda $111
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Bermuda $139
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Bermuda $139
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Bermuda $37,667
Volkswagen Golf (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $28,000 Bermuda $40,000
Gasoline (1 gallon) P.R. $2.93 Bermuda $8.01




1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar) P.R $42 Ecuador $82
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M,) P.R $39 Ecuador $56
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range) P.R. $82 Ecuador $109.51
Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes P.R. $91 Ecuador $95
Toyota Corolla Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $22,305 Ecuador $31,946
Volkswagen Golf (Or Equivalent New Car) P.R. $28,000 Ecuador $28,500




Like any country and island in the world there are lots of factors that dictates consumer prices and cost of living from taxes (direct and indirect) supply and demand, Purchasing power, value of the currency, inflation and, business regulations. Putting the primary blame on the Jones Act is just plain lazy by ignoring many factors. Latin Countries don't have the Jones Act like Dominican Republic and import goods and cars are more expensive in D.R. than Puerto Rico and both countries are next to each other. Haiti and Bermuda are the same.
lost of doubtful statistics here.
first

PPP (Purchase power parity in PR in 2018 was 35044$
ppp in DR was 15700$
or about 100% not 285% as you claim.

two: prices in DR are impacted by the incredibly high taxes on everything, just as an example, sale tax in DR is 16% !!!! and import tax is 12%
Gasoline is more expensive in DR because there is an special tax to pay for the national debt.

Everything else is just cheaper in DR, no one that have ever visited both countries will claim PR to be cheaper, even with the ridiculous taxation in DR.

Puerto Rico is just way more expensive than DR in a dollar by dollar basis.
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Philly
9,859 posts, read 13,793,749 times
Reputation: 2698
Indeed either a) it destroys trade with the us while having no discernible positive impacts or b) it destroys trade with the us while also raising prices and failing to achieve anything positive. Either way there is no logical argument in support of the Jones act. The debate about its role in hurting pr is a distraction from that fact. Sure the Jones act didnt make the island governme t corrupt and incompetent but that's hardly a reason to keep it.
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