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the question is do the majority of Puerto Ricans in the island (not in the states) feel Americans above anything else and the answer is NO.
You can't admit a territory as a state where the majority in the territory don't feel Americans. That's decades of politics, education, and propaganda in the island to get that that it has been ignored and I blame the local government and public education system.
This is the mentality in the island of many people, they rather reject statehood to keep the Olympic team and Miss Universe independent from the USA because they want to be known to the world as Puerto Ricans only not Americans above all. That's the reason most of them fly only the Puerto Rican flag and not the USA flag and only a few celebrate the 4th of July on the island.
I'm Pro USA and I will fly the USA above the Puerto Rican flag because the USA is my nation. Serving in the U.S. Military and getting educated in the states and made me feel that way but the majority on the island doesn't feel that way. Many Puerto Ricans in the states feels the same way. (but is the people on the island that count because they live on the island)
Before I get jumped here, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Just telling it like I see it from the inside and now outside. I was born in Puerto Rico and was raised there until I was 18 years old and went to their Public Schools and keep going to the island to visit. Nowhere in their Public Schools, they teach American Civics or real U.S. History. They emphasize more on Spain history and the Spanish language in reading and culture for decades and that results in a disconnection from the USA to the majority in the island especially the poor and lower class that pushing a statehood bill is not going to fix.
the question is do the majority of Puerto Ricans in the island (not in the states) feel Americans above anything else and the answer is NO.
You can't admit a territory as a state where the majority in the territory don't feel Americans. That's decades of politics, education, and propaganda in the island to get that that it has been ignored and I blame the local government and public education system.
This is the mentality in the island of many people, they rather reject statehood to keep the Olympic team and Miss Universe independent from the USA because they want to be known to the world as Puerto Ricans only not Americans above all. That's the reason most of them fly only the Puerto Rican flag and not the USA flag and only a few celebrate the 4th of July on the island.
I'm Pro USA and I will fly the USA above the Puerto Rican flag because the USA is my nation. Serving in the U.S. Military and getting educated in the states and made me feel that way but the majority on the island doesn't feel that way. Many Puerto Ricans in the states feels the same way. (but is the people on the island that count because they live on the island)
Before I get jumped here, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Just telling it like I see it from the inside and now outside. I was born in Puerto Rico and was raised there until I was 18 years old and went to their Public Schools and keep going to the island to visit. Nowhere in their Public Schools, they teach American Civics or real U.S. History. They emphasize more on Spain history and the Spanish language in reading and culture for decades and that results in a disconnection from the USA to the majority in the island especially the poor and lower class that pushing a statehood bill is not going to fix.
Let's be honest here ... it's not much better on the mainland. Have you ever seen that show where they go around and ask people questions like "Who was the first president?" or "Who did the US fight in the Civil War?" and nobody can answer the question or they have to go through 10 people before someone gets it right?
That said, you are correct about the public schools ... look at that Adia Diaz of the teacher's union for instance.
With 46% of cast ballots statehood does not have the support of the Puerto Rican Electorate.
With 97 voting yes and only a 23 % turn out because the public did not see " keeping it a commonwealth " on the ballot?
Island investors don't want to lose their money.
Filing for statehood ,filing for bankruptcy and no way in
heck U.S. is picking up the tab.
The storm devastation only added fuel to
the 12% unemployment, $70 billion dollars in debt,closing
of schools and hospitals, government workers,fireman,cops
being laid off,and an average of 1 doctor per day leaving the island.
Puerto Rico is in the crapper and unless every islander tightens his belt
and comes up with a plan to pay off the debt it will be the end of the island as we know it..
Let's be honest here ... it's not much better on the mainland. Have you ever seen that show where they go around and ask people questions like "Who was the first president?" or "Who did the US fight in the Civil War?" and nobody can answer the question or they have to go through 10 people before someone gets it right?
That said, you are correct about the public schools ... look at that Adia Diaz of the teacher's union for instance.
I'm not saying being an "A" student in American History. I'm saying teaching in the schools the basics in American civics and what does it mean to be an American and being part of the USA. They never teach that in the public schools in Puerto Rico so many on the island don't feel a connection with the USA and they view it as a foreign country.
again, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans, I'm sure some do but Puerto Rico has been a U.S. territory for over 1 century and they have U.S. citizenship for over 1 century. You would expect that statehood would be the #1 choice for 90% of the Puerto Ricans on the island and you expect most feel Americans first and above all but is not the case.
if you add the PRO Commonwealth and Independence voters together they are the majority in the island and it has been like that for over 50 years way before I was born talking to my grandparents and people from that era. They rather keep their Olympic Team so they can parade with the P.R. flag every 2 years and every sporting event playing against other Latin countries and Miss Universe over becoming a state. I saw that growing up and still do and that is what gives me pause about pushing statehood on a large % of people that don't feel of Americans and don't want to integrate fully.
and talking to the new generation in Puerto Rico in colleges, they tilt more for pro-independence/free association and socialism. Again, it's the public school system in Puerto Rico and the teachers teaching the kids. I saw it in the '80s while going to school on the island and now is more.
There is no way that an independentista socialist like Carmen Yulin would win mayor of the Capitol of Puerto Rico, 50 years ago or 20 years ago. She won it twice and she has a shot to become governor in 2020 and she has a large % support of the college votes.
With 46% of cast ballots statehood does not have the support of the Puerto Rican Electorate.
With 97 voting yes and only a 23 % turn out because the public did not see " keeping it a commonwealth " on the ballot?
"Commonwealth" was on the ballot ... under it's real name: current territorial status. "Commonwealth" is a make believe word that has no legal meaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
You would expect that statehood would be the #1 choice for 90% of the Puerto Ricans on the island and you expect most feel Americans first and above all but is not the case.
Again, public schools ... it sounds crazy but children in public schools in Puerto Rico are basically brainwashed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
and talking to the new generation in Puerto Rico in colleges, they tilt more for pro-independence/free association and socialism. Again, it's the public school system in Puerto Rico and the teachers teaching the kids. I saw it in the '80s while going to school on the island and now is more.
There is no way that an independentista socialist like Carmen Yulin would win mayor of the Capitol of Puerto Rico, 50 years ago or 20 years ago. She won it twice and she has a shot to become governor in 2020 and she has a large % support of the college votes.
That's the UPR, it's always been a hotbed of separatism. As for millennials at large, El Nuevo Dia did extensive polling in the lead up to the 2017 referendum and support for independence in the group aged 30 and under was only slightly higher than other age ranges, I want to say it was between 20-25%. I call that youthful indiscretion, happens with every generation. If I recall correctly it was 60+ that had the highest percentage in support of the current territorial status. Highest percentage of support for statehood was in the 30-60 age range.
I'm having trouble finding it on ENDI's website but I will keep looking.
the question is do the majority of Puerto Ricans in the island (not in the states) feel Americans above anything else and the answer is NO.
You can't admit a territory as a state where the majority in the territory don't feel Americans. That's decades of politics, education, and propaganda in the island to get that that it has been ignored and I blame the local government and public education system.
This is the mentality in the island of many people, they rather reject statehood to keep the Olympic team and Miss Universe independent from the USA because they want to be known to the world as Puerto Ricans only not Americans above all. That's the reason most of them fly only the Puerto Rican flag and not the USA flag and only a few celebrate the 4th of July on the island.
I'm Pro USA and I will fly the USA above the Puerto Rican flag because the USA is my nation. Serving in the U.S. Military and getting educated in the states and made me feel that way but the majority on the island doesn't feel that way. Many Puerto Ricans in the states feels the same way. (but is the people on the island that count because they live on the island)
Before I get jumped here, I don't speak for all Puerto Ricans. Just telling it like I see it from the inside and now outside. I was born in Puerto Rico and was raised there until I was 18 years old and went to their Public Schools and keep going to the island to visit. Nowhere in their Public Schools, they teach American Civics or real U.S. History. They emphasize more on Spain history and the Spanish language in reading and culture for decades and that results in a disconnection from the USA to the majority in the island especially the poor and lower class that pushing a statehood bill is not going to fix.
Man! I so hate to agree with you 100%. But, as much as it pains me to admit, I agree with you 100%.
The shred of hope resides in those Boricuas whom are proud US Citizens, who do their best to uphold the US values. As you and I, most of the proud Boricua US Citizens I know happen to be former US Military.
Man! I so hate to agree with you 100%. But, as much as it pains me to admit, I agree with you 100%.
The shred of hope resides in those Boricuas whom are proud US Citizens, who do their best to uphold the US values. As you and I, most of the proud Boricua US Citizens I know happen to be former US Military.
why do you hate to agree with me? Like they say in P.R. "Deja el odio, deja el odio" You and I have lots of things in common, you just don't want to admit it.....lol
Most in Puerto Rico it's like the girl that likes a boy but she is not in love with him. They view the United States as a friend with benefits but are not in love with the USA and don't view themselves as Americans but want to keep that close friendship with benefits with the U.S.
I noticed that for Pedro Albizu Campos an independentista and anti-American that wanted to kick out the U.S. government and U.S military completely out of the island they have:
* 5 public schools named after him in Puerto Rico
* there are streets in most municipalities named after him
* In Chicago they named a High School after him
* In New York City the Campos Plaza Community Center and housing project in Manhattan are named after him
* In New York City, Public School 161 in Harlem is named after him.
* In Ponce, there is a Pedro Albizu Campos Park and lifesize statue dedicated to his memory. Every September 12, his contributions to Puerto Rico are remembered at this park on the celebration of his birthday.
* In Salinas , there is a "Plaza Monumento Don Pedro Albizu Campos", a plaza and 9-foot statue dedicated to his memory. It was dedicated on January 11, 2013, the birthday of Eugenio Maria de Hostos, another Puerto Rican who supported for Puerto Rico's independence.
now for Jose Celso Barbosa, one of the first persons of African descent to earn a medical degree in the United States and served in the first elected Puerto Rican Senate and was a champion and the grandfather of statehood in P.R. they only have:
* only 1 school named after him in Puerto Rico (Ponce)
* One museum in Bayamon (where he was from)
* one official holiday in P.R. for his birthday
* W Bush named a Post Office in Bayamon after his name.
see the problem? When Pedro Albizu has more schools, streets, and parks named after him and more name recognition including in New York City and Chicago (largely Puerto Rican population) over Jose Celso Barbosa and Luis A. Ferre, 2 champions for statehood in the island since the beginning of the 1900's then we have a problem in making Puerto Rico into a state and why most Puerto Ricans on the island don't feel Americans. It starts with public schools all the way to colleges in Puerto Rico. If they don't teach American Civics in the schools in Puerto Rico and what does it means to be an American and instead push the Albizu and the independentista propaganda in the schools then you will have the majority in the island disconnected and not feeling Americans and believe the U.S. is a foreign oppressive nation towards them.
I never understood Puerto Ricans that move to Chicago and NYC and support schools and statues named after Pedro Albizu and don't know about Jose Celso Barbosa. If you are anti-statehood and anti-American and want independence for Puerto Rico like Albizu, why come to live in Chicago and NYC and didn't stay in P.R. to fight for independence?
they don't feel Americans but want to keep the U.S. as a friend with benefits.
I probably wouldn´t be able to say this having not grown up in the States and knowing almost no Spanish or Latin American culture, THEN living in PR and picking things up a bit, THEN finally living in an independent country and really grasping society has much as society as allowed me to....BUT...
I think PR becoming a state could be seamless in every sense of the word if that´s what everyone really wanted. On my last trip it just felt so American already...if anyone has been down to say Brownsville, Texas or Hialeah, Florida can you honestly say that it feels that much more "American" than Puerto Rico in 2019? It´s kind of a wash.
Some people will want to fight me for saying this, but having Spanish as the dominant language in a state is really no problem. The US is a bilingual country at this point, at least as much so as Canada is...Quebec and other French speaking bastions are scattered throughout the country, but if anything Spanish speaking communities in the US are much better dispersed throughout much of the country. The whole thing about Miss Universe, the Olympics, etc could be easily resolved by simply allowing them to still have it, really no big deal. If Quebec can manage its own immigration system as a province of Canada, you mean to tell me that PR can´t have these little cultural displays? It´s not a deal breaker, or shouldn´t be. Americans in general show off their own roots too much if you ask me...Italian Americans who speak zero Italian and have never been to the country rep the place as if they just got to Ellis Island. Irish-Americans? Mexican-Americans? The list goes on and on.
The distance between Puerto Rico and Miami is 1,150 miles. The distance between Hawaii and California is 2,467 miles. No issues there either.
Now the posts above have made excellent points about how and why this will never happen, but when you look at it the facts, nothing is stopping PR from becoming a state. It´s only raw emotion at this point. One thing that will never happen though is full blown independence, talk about a logistical nightmare. It would be worse than trying to make Brexit happen.
I think PR becoming a state could be seamless in every sense of the word if that´s what everyone really wanted. On my last trip it just felt so American already...if anyone has been down to say Brownsville, Texas or Hialeah, Florida can you honestly say that it feels that much more "American" than Puerto Rico in 2019? It´s kind of a wash.
Some people will want to fight me for saying this, but having Spanish as the dominant language in a state is really no problem. The US is a bilingual country at this point.
Now the posts above have made excellent points about how and why this will never happen, but when you look at it the facts, nothing is stopping PR from becoming a state. It´s only raw emotion at this point. One thing that will never happen though is full blown independence, talk about a logistical nightmare. It would be worse than trying to make Brexit happen.
excellent points. Puerto Rico going from commonwealth to statehood would be close to seamless ( a few bumps, nothing the government does is painless, by nature they complicate things) because the federal government has been in the island for decades and most federal programs apply to the island and Puerto Ricans are familiar with those programs and aid. Federal laws has been applied to the island for decades so the change would be almost seamless because it wouldn't be drastic changes like independence. Independence would be drastic changes in people's lives if you takeout the USA system out of their lives.
The problem is the stubbornness emotions of many Puerto Ricans who don't feel Americans and don't want to give up symbolic things like the Olympic team and Miss Universe because it's a Puerto Rican pride thing and very symbolic for them, a lot more important than being a state. They like the benefits the United States offers under commonwealth but will not give up their sacred symbolic symbols.
If you live in Puerto Rico like I have, you will hardly find a Puerto Rican that views himself as an American above all, let alone say it out loud in the island and be generally accepted. You have to say I'm Puerto Rican and a distant second proud of my U.S. Citizenship for people not to view you as a sellout or "vende patria" like a large % of the population would call you if you say I'm a proud American and the U.S.A is my nation and start waiving the American flag.
I blame the public education system in the island that for decades has been politicized that they don't teach American Civics or what does it mean to be an American. Instead is a independentista and anti-statehood propaganda in the schools and from teachers that when most of people get out of high school or colleges in P.R. they have no connection to the USA and don't feel American. It's a disconnect.
That's why my main critique of the statehood political movement in Puerto Rico. They let the independentistas and anti-Union politics take control of the public school system in the island for decades and these are results and in my opinion you can't push for statehood in a territory if the majority don't feel Americans.
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You and I have lots of things in common, you just don't want to admit it.....lol
