Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Puerto Rico has been under 2 world powers for 6 centuries and they still maintain their culture, language, and tradition and their ways. That tells you that Puerto Rico has a self preservation streak that goes beyond a political status. You can try to mold it by force or tyranny in an experiment and cross your fingers for an outcome but if you leave them free on their own this is what you have regardless if Puerto Rico has been under 2 world powers for 6 centuries. You have to live in the island to see and understand this.
I get your point that Puerto Rico has had a self-preservation strength for six centuries of colonization. Puerto Rico is a nation in the cultural identity aspect, but not a country according to what the United Nations defines as a country, which is the real definition of a nation.
I don't know why you assume that I haven't lived in Puerto Rico for enough time. Maybe that's because you are trying to determine who is a real Puerto Rican and who is not, based on your particular Puerto Rican meter.
I've been in the states for almost 20 years. In any case, I'm more a hybrid Puerto Rican acculturated to the states. Acculturation implies adopting norms, attitudes, and ways of thought from of the states while maintaining my cultural identity. I don't speak Spanglish like many of us. My Spanish is clear, although with a modified accent, which has occurred involuntarily as the time passes. Many Latinos say I sound Caribbean, but can't distinguish from where. Adaptation implies "just getting used" to the states with little or no change. Anyway... these stupid words I'm explaining are another story.
The main topic is that Puerto Rico is not a nation but a subordinated territory of the U.S.
I get your point that Puerto Rico has had a self-preservation strength for six centuries of colonization. Puerto Rico is a nation in the cultural identity aspect, but not a country according to what the United Nations defines as a country, which is the real definition of a nation.
I don't know why you assume that I haven't lived in Puerto Rico for enough time. Maybe that's because you are trying to determine who is a real Puerto Rican and who is not, based on your particular Puerto Rican meter.
I've been in the states for almost 20 years. In any case, I'm more a hybrid Puerto Rican acculturated to the states. Acculturation implies adopting norms, attitudes, and ways of thought from of the states while maintaining my cultural identity. I don't speak Spanglish like many of us. My Spanish is clear, although with a modified accent, which has occurred involuntarily as the time passes. Many Latinos say I sound Caribbean, but can't distinguish from where. Adaptation implies "just getting used" to the states with little or no change. Anyway... these stupid words I'm explaining are another story.
The main topic is that Puerto Rico is not a nation but a subordinated territory of the U.S.
The definition of a nation is a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory. Go tell the Navajos that they are not a nation. Puerto Rico will always be a nation regardless of political status.
We know the definition of a country in international law but if you live in Puerto Rico, it matters what the majority feel and how they view themselves when they refer the island to "el pais" "mi pais" "mi tierra". It transcends way beyond treaties.
Let me clarify my post of you not being a "real" Puerto Rican. It could be kinda harsh but you are missing the point. The essay that you posted about the long list of complains about Puerto Rico and the culture, there is NO federal mandate, or political status or federal American law that would change that. Americans aren't coming to the rescue to the island and teach them to change to the American right way.
) The Power Grid: Statehood or independence won't change it
2) Teacher's pension plan: Statehood or independence won't change it
3) 5 level hurricane or internal readiness: Statehood or independence won't change it
4) How school manages funds: Statehood or independence won't change it.
5) Bureaucracy in Government: Statehood or independence won't change that.
6) Making the majority in the island to speak fluent English: Statehood or Independence won't change that. There is NO federal law that would change that unless you want to go tyrant and even that it will fail. You force people to NOT do something and you get the opposite effect
None of the issues in the essay will be address with a piece of paper saying statehood or independence. Every issue in the essay happens around the world, in Latin countries and as a matter of fact in some, cities and towns. The author believes in the myth of American Exceptionalism but that is no going to work on the issues for Puerto Rico he outlines.
He writes:
Quote:
Modern Puerto Ricans can battle for Puerto Rico from the states through voting and lobbying, whether for statehood or independence.
What does that means? Modern? Sounds elitist. That the people living in Puerto Rico doesn't count? He has yet to explain how does the people of the state of Massachusetts and their politics will decide for the nation of Puerto Rico between Statehood or independence or that it will solve the internal issues he made when We all know that is not reality.
The fact is his essay doesn't solve 1 problem and he is delusional.
You say Puerto Rico has the same problems as other Latin American countries. Isn't not the same point the author is arguing? If Puerto Rico has the same problems as neighboring countries, what's the point of being part of the United States? What's the point of swimming the ocean with the United States since 1898 to end with a dying economy at the shore under American flag? I think that's the main idea of the article, which I might disagree or not.
I think a lot of the article is more about reading between the lines what the author doesn't say openly. From a literary standpoint, the article is a well-written piece with a very organized and eloquent body. There is a lot of food for thought or like the saying in Puerto Rico: "tiene o hay mucha tela para cortar." (Here, I am "tirando" my words in Spanish and you say I'm not Puerto Rican ).
It seems maybe like a long opinion column for a newspaper, and that's why I wanted to share it here. As I said, I might disagree with some points but don't judge the author for his views because everybody is entitled to their own feelings.
QUESTION: Why does "modern Puerto Rican" sounds elitist to you? Am I misunderstanding something?
ANOTHER POINT FROM THE ARTICLE: Residents of Puerto Rico are limited to decide over local matters only. Isn't that true from the Commonwealth? I never voted for federal elections there. Presidential primaries are a joke that almost nobody understand because they are subordinated, and that makes Presidential primaries irrelevant for most of the population. I agree with the author that Puerto Rican in the states have more voting power over the island. What's false from that?
Last edited by diegomar2007; 04-13-2022 at 09:38 PM..
You say Puerto Rico has the same problems as other Latin American countries. Isn't not the same point the author is arguing? If Puerto Rico has the same problems as neighboring countries, what's the point of being part of the United States? What's the point of swimming the ocean with the United States since 1898 to end with a dying economy at the shore under American flag? I think that's the main idea of the article, which I might disagree or not.
I think a lot of the article is more about reading between the lines what the author doesn't say openly. From a literary standpoint, the article is a well-written piece with a very organized and eloquent body. There is a lot of food for thought or like the saying in Puerto Rico: "tiene o hay mucha tela para cortar." (Here, I am "tirando" my words in Spanish and you say I'm not Puerto Rican ).
It seems maybe like a long opinion column for a newspaper, and that's why I wanted to share it here. As I said, I might disagree with some points but don't judge the author for his views because everybody is entitled to their own feelings.
QUESTION: Why does "modern Puerto Rican" sounds elitist to you? Am I misunderstanding something?
ANOTHER POINT FROM THE ARTICLE: Residents of Puerto Rico are limited to decide over local matters only. Isn't that true from the Commonwealth? I never voted for federal elections there. Presidential primaries are a joke that almost nobody understand because they are subordinated, and that makes Presidential primaries irrelevant for most of the population. I agree with the author that Puerto Rican in the states have more voting power over the island. What's false from that?
Puerto Rico might share some similarities to neighboring countries due to proximity and perhaps culture but is way ahead of most of them in GDP, education, human rights, crime, healthcare, COL etc....
It's just as an island it faces challenges. If it was say the lone island between wealthy countries such as Hawaii.....it might resemble that more....that however isn't the case. Yes Hawaii is a state too.
You say Puerto Rico has the same problems as other Latin American countries. Isn't not the same point the author is arguing? If Puerto Rico has the same problems as neighboring countries, what's the point of being part of the United States? What's the point of swimming the ocean with the United States since 1898 to end with a dying economy at the shore under American flag? I think that's the main idea of the article, which I might disagree or not.
I think a lot of the article is more about reading between the lines what the author doesn't say openly. From a literary standpoint, the article is a well-written piece with a very organized and eloquent body. There is a lot of food for thought or like the saying in Puerto Rico: "tiene o hay mucha tela para cortar." (Here, I am "tirando" my words in Spanish and you say I'm not Puerto Rican ).
It seems maybe like a long opinion column for a newspaper, and that's why I wanted to share it here. As I said, I might disagree with some points but don't judge the author for his views because everybody is entitled to their own feelings.
QUESTION: Why does "modern Puerto Rican" sounds elitist to you? Am I misunderstanding something?t?
Freedom of speech is a 2 way street. So what federal law will change the list of complains from the teacher? What referendum in Mass or Alaska or American politicians will change the things the teacher complains about Puerto Rico?
Let's turn the coin. What law or mandate as a independent Puerto Rico will change the list he made of complains? Do you hear classic rock music? There is a band call the WHO with their song "Won't get fooled again." It ends with " meet the new boss same as the old boss." The whole song is about revolution and illusions.
So if there is not a political miracle coming from Uncle Sam, what is the teacher implying, that it's the culture and mentality issue in the island? and modern educated Puerto Ricans must fight in the states to push for a bigger federal government and impose change to the island
You asked me: Why does "modern Puerto Rican" sounds elitist to you? Am I misunderstanding something?
Experience in the island. Multiple clues how they speak about themselves when it has nothing to with the topic. He writes next to his name M. ED. In what and what does that has to do with his complain list is a mystery. I would be more impress him telling me what he does for a living next to his name. I know many people in the island that have college degrees but work in a completely different job. I know a woman in the island that got a psychology degree from the University of Puerto Rico and she has been working for over 20 years as a loan processor in one of the big banks in P.R. and she likes the pay. I'm sure that college degree stamped in her resume helped her get that job at the bank but is worthless for her job because everything she knows for her job they trained her in the company. Having a degree is a big thing over there even when the job doesn't really demand it. Even to manage a Subway, they want some kind of college degree. That's another topic.
He again mentions he has a Master's degree and he says it's worth nothing in Puerto Rico without any details. He sounds like he is also entitled. He was a teacher in Puerto Rico and he gets a Masters but he is saying is worthless? That's 65k to 88k a year being a professor at the Universities in P.R. That's assuming that he is good at teaching and he loves teaching. He throws lots of things without details for at the end of his complain list his solution is to move to the states and change Puerto Rico with a big federal government and I'm assuming it's big because he sounds progressive.
Anything that grows the federal government or P.R. government in the island you can count me out and is counter productive. Apart from that, you can count me in for any debate about changes of all the things he complained that every Puerto Rican that has ever been in the island knows.
M.Ed. means Master's of Education. I don't know the author's major, but it sounds like a well-educated person (based on his writing style, not his arguments). I work in college administration and know the jargon, although I resent some professors who believe they are gods on Mount Olympus. But I'm familiar to that atmosphere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar
...but he is saying is worthless? That's 65k to 88k a year being a professor at the Universities in P.R.
Many people with graduate degrees in Puerto Rico (master, doctorate) are not lucky in finding a decent job that pays according to their qualifications. Candidates need to have internal connections to work at the UPR (and a doctorate). I agree with the author in his point that corruption and favoritism in Puerto Rico is the way of doing business.
Private universities (in the states and Puerto Rico) are a different story. Nowadays, getting tenure status as a professor at a private college is almost like a prize. Most colleges today are looking for adjunct professors. That means someone who goes and gives a lecture, gets paid by the session, and leaves. Adjunct professors are paid by the amount of students in each session they have, not a set salary. There are no benefits, no stability, and no guarantee of being hired again next year.
As you said, we don't know what the author is doing with his degree in the states, although I read in his bio that he volunteers for non-profits in Boston. For me, what the author might be doing or not in Boston with his degree doesn't invalidates his opinions.
As I said in a previous answer, I can't judge someone's experience and feelings, although I might have a different perspective. Puerto Rico means a different thing for everyone. I still think it's a well-written article that many people will feel related.
Puerto Rico might share some similarities to neighboring countries due to proximity and perhaps culture but is way ahead of most of them in GDP, education, human rights, crime, healthcare, COL etc....
Human rights in Puerto Rico are debatable because the U.S. Constitution does not apply to many aspects. Let's mention the profiling of "independentistas" and nationalists for many years in what they call "carpetas." These days, tolerance has changed a little bit, but still activist "independentistas" in Puerto Rico risk being ostracized and maybe becoming a target from the local police. That's comparable to people in Cuba who challenge their communist system and are subject to repudiation acts by a mob of communists paid by the government in front of their houses. The mob is not overt in Puerto Rico, but still ready to attack in subtle ways.
Last edited by diegomar2007; 04-14-2022 at 02:09 AM..
I would also put into question that Puerto Rico is ahead of much of Latin America in crime. If we look at homicide as one example, PR's situation isn't particularly bad by Latin American standards but it's on the verge of being on the bad side. Despite that, most Latin American countries have less homicides than PR. Granted that the reasons for the homicides are just as important since it isn't the same if most is random vs drug related (PR is the second one, so that greatly reduces the homicide risk for regular people not involved in that trade), but that isn't mentioned below.
COL is another one that is debatable, unless this is limited to the percentage of income required for the basics. Quite frankly, nowhere in Latin America is the COL as expensive as in PR. Heck, PR is more expensive than many areas in the USA mainland.
Human rights in Puerto Rico are debatable because the U.S. Constitution does not apply to many aspects. Let's mention the profiling of "independentistas" and nationalists for many years in what they call "carpetas." These days, tolerance has changed a little bit, but still activist "independentistas" in Puerto Rico risk being ostracized and maybe becoming a target from the local police. That's comparable to people in Cuba who challenge their communist system and are subject to repudiation acts by a mob of communists paid by the government in front of their houses. The mob is not overt in Puerto Rico, but still ready to attack in subtle ways.
You think the "independentista" movement would have received a better treatment in the United States especially during the Cold War? You think they would have received full constitutional protections if P.R. was #51?
Who cares if he is gay? Geez, you sound totally unhinged.
Actually he does because he put it in the topic. Who are you again? is that the only input you are making out of the whole topic. Next time I'm talking about the Puerto Rican government, I will throw in there that I'm straight and I like women. Just to see a reaction like yours.
Last edited by SanJuanStar; 04-14-2022 at 12:23 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
