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As far as my opinion as far as the OP's original question, I would strongly recommend San German over SJ, if trying to live on a budget. I am considering a similar move, and am ruling out the SJ metro area for trying to do it on a tight budget. To live in SJ on a budget seems to be not a case of sacrificing creature comforts, but of sacrificing personal safety. In other words, there are a zillion poor people in SJ, but I believe they are the ones that are the majority of the victims of the notorious PR crime rate due to the neighborhoods in which they have to live.
I have been working and living part-time in PR for some years, and have constantly tried to figure out how to live there on a more permanent "snow-bird" basis. The rural mountain towns (a la San German) holds the greatest appeal for me as far as safety, low cost of living, scenic beauty, and lack of crowding. If I were a student, it would be a no-brainer.
So there's my unqualified opinion as far as Peter's original post.
Now, back to guns.
Never mind the "back to guns" routine! Again, you really should have started a new thread and I hope a moderator will step in to separate the very separate issues. No offense to you but these are just so disparate issues ...
Also understand that when you're giving your opinion of different areas, and are, in your own words, trying to "figure out how to live there on a more permanent "snow-bird" basis" and, opining that, "If I were a student, it (living in St German) would be a no-brainer" you're not considering that this young man has a wife and will have a newborn in tow by the time he makes any move. I'm guessing that you're single but still unsure about your options?
The OP hasn't yet answered the question about whether or not he's a US citizen and whether either he or his wife is eligible to work in the US. He may be eligible for a foreign scholarship visa but has to prove to the USCIS that he can support himself on a student visa by independent means.
Just based on his initial post I think he needs to think very carefully before making a move, period. Cheers!
So, somebody told me I might want to recheck this thread, and that it had been somewhat derailed by a gun discussion.
I actually rather enjoyed the gun discussion--- I'm a second amendment buff/enthusiast.
As for the other things that were said--- very helpful advice, everyone.
Joe asked: "Have you been to PR?"
No, I haven't, unfortunately. I will say this thread confirms my suspicions that San German is a nice place to live than San Juan and more affordable.
As for the luxury and convenience I'll be giving up if I leave Seoul--- San German isn't too far a cry from the rural, inefficient Northern Wisconsin town I grew up in, so I'm sure I'll do just fine. (And without a doubt, San German has much nicer weather.) Not sure about my wife, although she did spend 4 months in rural Fiji when she was younger, and more recently, she spent a summer in rural Upstate New York. I think her adjustment to San German will still be rougher than mine if we go.
As for the wonders of Seoul that I'll be leaving behind---- for me, it's all been pretty meaningless--- I only really came here for the money, and the money is all I've enjoyed. (I actually met my wife in a much smaller town while roadtripping the K-peninusla--- but Seoul is her hometown, so we both settled here) I've never been much of a big city person, and I'd trade the wonders of Seoul and any other world "hub" for fresh air, beautiful scenery, and people who actually have time to smile and wave at you--- I've been missing that terribly ever since I left my hometown.
Ah, the rose colored spectacles and whatever anybody writes you're just going to slough off the basic advice and info like so many newbies who think they know all about moving to a new place.
PR isn't Seoul as any US territory or possession isn't US mainland. You went to Seoul for the money but you can't afford a pre-move visit to see if PR would really suit your needs and fit in with your living budget?
Oh well, I've cautioned as best I can and I hope everything works out for you. Cheers!
Regarding the gun question, check these people: Armeria Metropolitana
Click on the FAQ link, as it shows you info about the different gun licenses available in PR. They also have a phone number listed and they would be able to help answer any questions that you might still have.
STT, to be fair, looks like this guy has traveled a lot. I doubt he made a pre-move visit to Korea... PR is great but living here is a far cry from images of Salsa dancing, piña colada drinking, sun tanning, beach loving fun that the tourism bureau creates.
Just know that normal life is tough down here.... even for those who can comfortably afford life in PR.
(Hopefully I can redeem myself here by asking a question more closely related to the OP's!)
Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "Just know that normal life is tough down here.... even for those who can comfortably afford life in PR."
I have gradually built the opinion that life in SJ can be a bit hectic and stressful if you're middle class, and somewhat hopeless and dangerous if you're poor. But what about on the rest of the island? I have lived for a short while in Truillo Alto (Encantada) and it was a very relaxing and pleasant experience. I was surrounded by middle class Puerto Ricans who appeared to have good jobs and nice houses and happy families. The gated community thing was a bit foreign to me, and the level of noise was a bit higher than I was used to. Nothing major- neighbor had a dog that barked from time to time, there were occasional parties that you could hear, but they weren't that bad, and ended at a decent hour.
I also have spent a lot of time with middle class friends in Caguas that seem to have a very good life, in a nice, safe, quiet neighborhood. They have fun, go to school, work, raise families, do sports, etc. Seems pretty normal. They would occasionally roll their eyes at some of the quirky Puerto Rico things that happen, but these annoyances didn't seem to drag them down.
After reading comments here on the forum, though, I do need to quiz them thoroughly about medical care and private schools (I have a young family). Also, my limited dealings with government people have been shockingly exasperating. I mean, I expected it to be bad, but it was like a scene from some nasty comedy sketch. Hopefully I won't need to deal with them much. But could I imagine buying or building a house could be a real trying experience.
So please understand that I am not challenging your assertion at all. I know Puerto Rico can be extremely frustrating. I am admitting that I have limited experience here. I am truly trying to get a feel for any unexpected difficulties I (or the OP) can expect.
Peter- FWIW, you may be shocked at the huge differences between rural Wisconsin (which I have spent a little time in), Upstate NY (which I am very familiar with), and small-town PR. For me, I think the biggest adjustment would be to the noise, the (mostly petty) crime, and the half-assed way things are done on so many different levels. But it does sound like you're an experienced traveler, and somewhat adventuresome, so I say go for it. Keep in mind that I'm on this forum to try to get a handle on a move myself, so my opinion isn't worth much compared to those that have lived in PR for some time.
(Hopefully I can redeem myself here by asking a question more closely related to the OP's!)
Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "Just know that normal life is tough down here.... even for those who can comfortably afford life in PR."
I have gradually built the opinion that life in SJ can be a bit hectic and stressful if you're middle class, and somewhat hopeless and dangerous if you're poor. But what about on the rest of the island? I have lived for a short while in Truillo Alto (Encantada) and it was a very relaxing and pleasant experience. I was surrounded by middle class Puerto Ricans who appeared to have good jobs and nice houses and happy families. The gated community thing was a bit foreign to me, and the level of noise was a bit higher than I was used to. Nothing major- neighbor had a dog that barked from time to time, there were occasional parties that you could hear, but they weren't that bad, and ended at a decent hour.
I also have spent a lot of time with middle class friends in Caguas that seem to have a very good life, in a nice, safe, quiet neighborhood. They have fun, go to school, work, raise families, do sports, etc. Seems pretty normal. They would occasionally roll their eyes at some of the quirky Puerto Rico things that happen, but these annoyances didn't seem to drag them down.
After reading comments here on the forum, though, I do need to quiz them thoroughly about medical care and private schools (I have a young family). Also, my limited dealings with government people have been shockingly exasperating. I mean, I expected it to be bad, but it was like a scene from some nasty comedy sketch. Hopefully I won't need to deal with them much. But could I imagine buying or building a house could be a real trying experience.
So please understand that I am not challenging your assertion at all. I know Puerto Rico can be extremely frustrating. I am admitting that I have limited experience here. I am truly trying to get a feel for any unexpected difficulties I (or the OP) can expect.
Peter- FWIW, you may be shocked at the huge differences between rural Wisconsin (which I have spent a little time in), Upstate NY (which I am very familiar with), and small-town PR. For me, I think the biggest adjustment would be to the noise, the (mostly petty) crime, and the half-assed way things are done on so many different levels. But it does sound like you're an experienced traveler, and somewhat adventuresome, so I say go for it. Keep in mind that I'm on this forum to try to get a handle on a move myself, so my opinion isn't worth much compared to those that have lived in PR for some time.
All feedback appreciated!
David
Rural Puerto Rico (or Suburban San Juan) is a little less stressful than San Juan, but rural or urban, you need a job! You need to deal with local governments. And they can be hell.
If you ask me, driving in the countryside is MORE stresfful than in San Juan. When it rains everyday, and you're on an extremely narrow switchback on the side of a mountain and there's 10 cars tailing you and cars speeding down on the opposite side... yeah, i'll take crazy San Juan driving any day. And 5 inch manholes are ubiquitious throughout the island.
If you live in a multi-family community, don't think you can ask the neighbor to turn down the music or to keep their voices down in the hall. That's impossible.
Just because the families that you met 'rolled their eyes' at the quirky things in Puerto Rico doesn't mean that an expat or a transplant wouldn't have an infartion at the way some things are done here. It's to the point that when I meet an American who relocates down here, I'll be an acquaintance but I don't bother to offer friendship until maybe a year later because most of them don't last and go running for the hills as soon as they can.
With all this said, I love living here... but I've been lucky that I've decent income coming in, a good place to live and some free time to enjoy the beach and the island in general.
If you ask me, driving in the countryside is MORE stresfful than in San Juan. When it rains everyday, and you're on an extremely narrow switchback on the side of a mountain and there's 10 cars tailing you and cars speeding down on the opposite side... yeah, i'll take crazy San Juan driving any day. And 5 inch manholes are ubiquitious throughout the island.
I have to disagree with you on this one. While it is true that mountain roads are usually narrow and can be quite challenging during inclement weather, the drivers in the San Juan metro area are EXTREMELY aggressive. They will blow the horn even before the light turns green, they'll cut in front of you and then hit the brakes, they'll pass you on the shoulder, they'll slow down traffic by driving slow on the left lane next to another car that is also driving slow on the right lane, etc.... Plus you'll have a hard time finding a stretch of road in San Juan that it's not jammed with traffic, unless it is 2:00 in the morning.
For some reason, the SJ traffic doesn't bother me that much. It seems a bit worse than other similar sized cities, but I'm also used to North Jersey/Metro NY, which is truly dispiriting. I've never really been bothered by aggressive drivers; usually it seems it's just some punk kid. The traffic jams drag me down a little, but don't seem that much worse than any other big city.
Driving in the mountains, which I have done extensively, can be a little tiresome to me just because of the slow pace of travel, but the roads and traffic rarely bother me there.
The one think that is annoyingly common in PR is that people seem to have zero understanding of the function of the different lanes. I'll get stuck behind someone doing 45 in the far left lane on the interstate, assume he is some near-catatonic 90 year old man, and it turns out he's just some guy tooling along, oblivious to the world. This happens so much I wonder if in PR people even understand that the left lane is supposed to be for passing, or if that law and practice doesn't even apply here.
Noise is the big deal breaker for me. Again, it seems people are just completely oblivious to the rest of the world. Although I am starting to find that it definitely seems to be a socio-economic class thing. In the middle class neighborhoods, it hardly seems to be an issue. But it seems universal that people are not bothered by it.
In Condado once, down the street a particular car alarm was going off every few minutes, day and night, literally for days. No one seemed to notice or care, but it was driving me slowly nuts. For some insane reason I finally called the police, fully understanding that it was a ridiculous gesture. To my amazement, two officers showed up after about 20 minutes, I explained what was going on, and miraculously, the car alarm stopped a few minutes later. It still amazes me that people were living right on top of this thing, in million dollar condos, and the only person that seemed bothered was some gringo down the street.
So I understand that Puerto Rico can wear one down. I have gotten burned out by it in the past. I'm hoping I can figure out a way to make a livable situation for us there.
Just read over the next several responses--- would've replied earlier, but I've been very busy on the mainland doing job interviews (PUerto Rico is but one option I'm exploring) Thanks to the OP for calling me on my "rose colored" view of a possible move to PR--- I certainly have more research to do.
Just so you know, it's not that I CAN'T afford a trip to PR top see if I like it, exactly, it's that checking out a place in person seems like a waste of money, money that could be much better spent in other ways. Most anyplace in the world seems livable and fun if you just visit it--- the real way to see if a place is livable is to research it. Not to mention that the time it takes to visit Puerto Rico is time I could instead spend earning some extra money in Korea or getting a steady flow of online teaching going again (which I've done from time to time), so I'll have a portable income source to take with me. ANd yes, I did research Korea and several other Asian countries thoroughly without actually visiting them. I chose Korea based on pay, cost of living, acceptable visa conditions, and governmental stability. I have no regrets, and I made the decision without visiting Korea, Thailand, China, or the handful or other Asian countries I had job offers from. I'm glad I didn't blow $2000 for an unneccessary round trip flight and hotel stay. This time aorund, it's even more importnat not to waste money, as my trip to America for several face to face interviews has already put a dent in my family's budgetary elbow room.
For the record, I am a U.S. citizen, and my wife has a green card. The responses I've gotten here make me realize that one thing I really need to look into is where-- if anywhere--- we could both find paying work. We don't speak Spanish, so I suspect San Juan might be the only place we might be able to get jobs. I really need to look at the San Juan job market for English speakers, as I am not willing to move to San Juan unless I think it will make our financial situation better, not worse. (As I may have mentioned, the university I'd be studying at has campuses in San Juan and San German)
Needless to say, I also need to look into the healthcare system. It looks good to me on paper, and I made a few calls to Triple S Salud, which seems like a decent provider. However, I hear more complaints than compliments for PR's healthcare and need to look into why.
Anyway, thanks again to everybody who's weighed in. I'll start some new threads on finding work in PR (assuming it's even possible), and PR health care soon. The places I've interviewed at in the U.S. have all promised to get back to me by the last week of March, and if I get no offers, there's a goo chance I'm PR bound.
Last edited by PeterDragon; 03-10-2010 at 09:12 AM..
Coming to PR is like going to any major spanish speaking city. Everyone knows english here, but it is not he official business language, but many people live here without knowing spansih. Look at the federal government for jobs. PR is part of the US, so the federal govenment has a lot of opportunity here, from the prison system, courts, to environment, to everyhting thats federal. Ive met americans who dont know spanish in all those areas.
Now, the job market is bad everywhere, because of the recession. Its no surpirse that theres been layoffs all over america, worse than any time other than the great depression, so 5 years ago Id say you had a 75% chance of finding work in 3 months, now Id say its at 30% in 3 months, everywhere in America, not just here. Its a little worse here, by about 15% for you, cause you dont know Spanish, the language most people speak here, though they almost all know english and many speak it daily too.
The tourist industry: As you may know, this is a cruise ship hot spot,all the caribean is, from the bahamas to here, all of it. Also, its a tourist spot to get away from the US and cold weather. Lots of east coasters come here, like west coasters go to Hawaii. So you should look hard at every hotel in Isla Verde and Old San Juan. Especially contact the Tourism Department, they may be interested in an american to help cater to the americans. But dont forget the hotels, even as a concierge or answering the phones, Americans would like it if an american answered i guess, like Puertoricans would like it if a puertorican answered the phone if im calling a hotel in nyc, or any type of person and any country, or something like that, i dont know, it doesnt really work the other way around i guess, but i hope u get my point.
Private schools: Check out all the biingual private schools, they may want an English teacher with an american accent rather than a puerto rican english accent. The kids from those schools often go to the US suprised that they dont have an american accent when they always though they did.
You may want to include what I wrote in your resume as reasosn why you should be hired.
$1500 will support u and a wife and a child for a month, it does for a lot of people. Lets say rent is $500. (small place, and rent is cheap for being such a large city, oh and u dont want to live outside the city). Food is $400. Transportation is $100 in gas a month. Thats $1000 on the necessities. Rent should include water and electricity. Phone is $40 if u get a good contract with a cell phone. You can look at and should look at government assistance, food stamps and health care and such, its available, just fill out the paperwork and wait a week for the first check.
By the way $1500 supports ppl in very large cities all across america, just not in luxury with big houses and big new cars in fancy areas etc...
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