Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you read the comments section of some of the articles on the unemployment extenions I have found, you'll see a lot of long-term unemployed Republicans finally disgusted with their party. I don't know how widespread that is, but I honestly think the "Red gain" is going to be smaller than predicted and not enough to flip the House or Senate (though I think the Senate will be nowhere near 60 anymore......I'm thinking like it will be low 50s Dem or 50 plus Crist winning in FL and then actually deciding to caucus with the Dems and surprise some people). The House will lose some Dem seats but I doubt the House will become majority Rep.
While I think there's some people for whom voting Republican will be against their own self-interest but will do so anyway, I think you're going to see a surprising number of Republican voters who actually will vote Democratic as the "lesser of 2 evils". Not enough so that Congress actually becomes more Democratic than now, and still some gains by the Republicans, but not as sharp as it may seems now.
Assuming the extension passes, what will be interesting is the election will be about 4 weeks before what could be the true end of the extensions, or maybe getting past the election (assuming it goes the way I predicted) will cause some movement in further extensions or finding some way (be it a Tier 5 or some new gov't program) to help the 99ers.
Amen! The last thing we want is to go back to an era like Clinton's 2nd term after the repubs took over Congress!
Not true -- 60 votes are required to invoke cloture on a bill; and any bill that has had cloture invoked then requires 60 votes for passage after the cloture time limit on further debate expires.
So what's the point in voting for cloture, to only then turn around and vote against it? That makes no sense.
HR 4213 was never a stand-alone bill and is still not a stand-alone bill. Read the current text of the bill in THOMAS in the Library of Congress. The full history of the bill is also available there -- including all amendments: proposed, passed, defeated, and withdrawn.
Your usually straight forward with your responses and I'm finding on this issue your not being as much, the bill that Snowe and Collins supported in the senate did not have all the other stuff they did not support in the original 4213 thus the reason they voted for it. I am also still waiting on the link for the original 4213 that you think they are going to take up next week? If anything it may still be called 4213 but its only going to be for UI and not the other stuff!
If you read the comments section of some of the articles on the unemployment extenions I have found, you'll see a lot of long-term unemployed Republicans finally disgusted with their party. I don't know how widespread that is, but I honestly think the "Red gain" is going to be smaller than predicted and not enough to flip the House or Senate (though I think the Senate will be nowhere near 60 anymore......I'm thinking like it will be low 50s Dem or 50 plus Crist winning in FL and then actually deciding to caucus with the Dems and surprise some people). The House will lose some Dem seats but I doubt the House will become majority Rep.
While I think there's some people for whom voting Republican will be against their own self-interest but will do so anyway, I think you're going to see a surprising number of Republican voters who actually will vote Democratic as the "lesser of 2 evils". Not enough so that Congress actually becomes more Democratic than now, and still some gains by the Republicans, but not as sharp as it may seems now.
Assuming the extension passes, what will be interesting is the election will be about 4 weeks before what could be the true end of the extensions, or maybe getting past the election (assuming it goes the way I predicted) will cause some movement in further extensions or finding some way (be it a Tier 5 or some new gov't program) to help the 99ers.
I think you'll see disgruntled voters (whether Republican, Independent, or Democrat) vote for whoever isn't the incumbent or go for a new independent candidate. Many are fed up with the ones in office, whether they have R's or D's next to their name. It's hard to tell what the unemployed voters will do...vote for the party that wants to strip us of our benefits or vote for the party that wants to continue benefits...but claim they're creating/saving millions of jobs when the private sector remains in a hiring freeze. Pick your poison, I guess.
Overall...incumbents, whether D or R or I, are toxic to alot of people.
The bill is HR 4213, officially titled, " The promoting American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act of 2010".
There's plenty there beyond extending unemployment benefits. You only need look at it for a moment to realize it includes a lot more than extending unemployment benefits.
"It's pages and pages of extensions of other benefits that have been provided," said Rachel Smith an assistant professor of finance at the University of Indianapolis, who has been following the battle over the unemployment benefits bill. "Infrastructure incentives, we've got energy incentives, alternative motor vehicle credit for new hybrid vehicles."
"We've got low income housing credits, business tax relief, emergency agricultural disaster assistance, extensions of build America bonds,.The bill is packed with items Democrats say will help the economy and Republicans say don't belong in the bill.
Then comes HR5618 - And if I have that correct, it is a stand-alone, but it MUST be paid for, it can not at to the deficit....stimulus money can NOT be used. So, that's why this one is a problem....
The bill is HR 4213, officially titled, " The promoting American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act of 2010".
There's plenty there beyond extending unemployment benefits. You only need look at it for a moment to realize it includes a lot more than extending unemployment benefits.
"It's pages and pages of extensions of other benefits that have been provided," said Rachel Smith an assistant professor of finance at the University of Indianapolis, who has been following the battle over the unemployment benefits bill. "Infrastructure incentives, we've got energy incentives, alternative motor vehicle credit for new hybrid vehicles."
"We've got low income housing credits, business tax relief, emergency agricultural disaster assistance, extensions of build America bonds,.The bill is packed with items Democrats say will help the economy and Republicans say don't belong in the bill.
Yes and this is not the same bill Snowe and collins voted for. They voted for UI and that was it. Dont know how exactly it goes but if anything they voted for just an amendment of 4213 not the full bill. They both stated they would vote for just a UI extension by itself and not all the other BS associated with 4213 and they did.
Then comes HR5618 - And if I have that correct, it is a stand-alone, but it MUST be paid for, it can not at to the deficit....stimulus money can NOT be used. So, that's why this one is a problem....
Nope there is no problem with this bill with Snowe and Collins either as they voted for the senate version of the bill which was basically the same and was not paid for.
(1) HR 4213 is still in cloture -- Reid reserved the right to bring up the bill again in that state at the end of the last vote.
Thanks for the reply, diorgirl.
Quick question about the above. What does it mean that it is still in cloture? Cloture was invoked, and it wasn't invoked because there were not 60 "Ayes," before the 7/4 recess.
I understand that Reid had to change his vote to No in order to bring the bill up again for vote, which is why 4213 is the bill currently in the Senate. But how can it still be in cloture if cloture was not invoked before the most recent Senate recess?
Doesn't he have to invoke cloture again? Or can he bring it up for a simple majority vote?
I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge. I'm learning as I go here, and you are a big help.
Yes and this is not the same bill Snowe and collins voted for. They voted for UI and that was it. Dont know how exactly it goes but if anything they voted for just an amendment of 4213 not the full bill. They both stated they would vote for just a UI extension by itself and not all the other BS associated with 4213 and they did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHGreat
Nope there is no problem with this bill with Snowe and Collins either as they voted for the senate version of the bill which was basically the same and was not paid for.
Here are records of that last vote on HR 4213 in the Senate before they recessed for the July 4th holiday. They all document that the vote was for cloture -- not for some stand-alone "unemployment benefits" version of HR 4213 that you vaguely recall.
So until you provide a documented source for such a vote -- for only the UI programs of HR 4213 for which you claim Collins and Snowe voted -- there is really no point in pursuing the discussion any further based only on your vague recollections that there is a stand-alone version of HR 4213 (UI benefits only) that was voted on.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
