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I just wanted someone to help me understand something.
I resigned from my employment and applied for unemployment benefits. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? I agree when looking from the outside but please allow me a few minutes to enlighten you on the reasons why. I was working for a manufacturer doing their warranty service work. I was hired with no limitations on my hours (usually 50-70) hours per week to service the state of CA and parts of NV by myself when it was a route that 2 service people had been assigned to do. I know this because my boss told me that the other man he had lined up to work with me had a problem with his license so he couldn't hire him. I didnt complain, they gave me ample amount of time to do the job.
I loved the job, I was able to see things and go places I had never been and it paid well. When the recession hit, my hours were reduced to 40 and I told my supervisor there was no way I could do this job in that amount of time. He told me there was nothing he could do about it.
Months later he gave me 1 week per month furlough to do the same job. Months later he added more work to my schedule when a distributor went out of business. So here I am, working 120 hours a month trying to do a job that used to take 240+. I DID do this but it became overwhelming. Especially when my boss changed the way he did things and told me that when I was given a work order, no more scheduling 2 weeks ahead of time. He wanted me to schedule my jobs 2-3-4 month out. Why? because he was getting overwhelmed at the office and needed some relief.
So here we have 1 man doing a 2 man job with less time and a furlough week per month, plus additional work in the way of closing distributorships.
Doable? I tried, I really tried and trust me when I say I tried to communicate my problems back to the main office but to no avail. I tried absolutely everything I could to make it work because its rediculous to quit a job in a recession.
The EDD denied my benefits because I didnt have "good cause" for quitting. I appealed and here's how the hearing went with the EDD.
The vice president of HR and my manager were on the phone. When I asked them if this job was originally designed for 2 people, they agreed. When I asked them if they reduced my hours from 65 to 40, they agreed. When I asked them if they gave me 1 week per month furlough, they again agreed. Lastly, I asked them if they gave me more work when a distributor closed down, they again agreed.
I understood the grounds for the hearing was to determine "good cause" and apparently I did not have good cause because I lost.
So apparently it is OK to change an employees scope of work to the point where it is not doable. So as an example:
If I raised Pigs and had a boy working for me feed the pigs 1 hour per day then I reduced the boys time to feed the pigs 40%, Thats OK? Further, I then gave the boy a week off every month and that's OK but when he returns to work, the pigs are hungry and it's the boys problem, but that's OK too? Then I give the boy 25 more pigs to feed, but that's Ok?
So when the pigs are snorting at the boy for more food and the boy cant feed them enough with what he has, who's fault is this? If the boy quit, would you think he had 'good cause'?
I am not upset that I lost, it was a shot in the dark filing for unemployment and I know the job simply couldn't be done, but how can an employer make changes to an employees job and not take responsibility when the employee cannot do the changes they impose? I don't understand how this works in the employers favor. If I sat in an interview and was interviewed for a job that this job had eventually became, I would have told them they were crazy and no thanks. You cant stuff 10 pounds of pig feed in a 5 pound bag, it cant be done.
So please give me some advice, anyone. I know I should have found another job before quitting but I tried. I looked for 3 months and I couldn't find anything. I gave it all I had and communicated my difficulties to 3 different managers for 6 months. I offered solutions to help remedy some time constraints but they didn't listen. I tried my best to keep my job but it wasn't working and the pigs (the consumers) needed attention that I couldn't give but was HIRED to give. I don't understand.
The verdict stated the judge believed "I quit because of the frustrations these issues incurred, not 1 compelling reason and because of that, I didn't have good cause". So help me understand how 1 compelling reason negates 4 compelling reasons. I am confused how an employer can be justified when placing added responsibility and hardship on an employee.
You should have just done what you could reasonably do, and let them fire you if they didn't like it. Employers can do pretty much whatever they want. I hope you find something doon.
One thing that you can effectively fight is when an employer breaks the law. In my case, I was very unhappy after working overtime every day but not getting paid overtime. I quit. I sued and won and also fought an unemployment denial and won. It was a verrrrry long process but worth it. Like the previous poster said, employers can pretty much do anything they want- doesn't make it right. If it's worth it to fight it, then fight it. Research the labor laws and the unemployment qualifications. For instance, you have to have talked to your boss about the problem and gave them a chance to correct it or asked to be transferred. Employers break the law all the time, but very few actually pursue legal remedies. If they don't get called on it they get away with it.
One thing that you can effectively fight is when an employer breaks the law. In my case, I was very unhappy after working overtime every day but not getting paid overtime. I quit. I sued and won and also fought an unemployment denial and won. It was a verrrrry long process but worth it. Like the previous poster said, employers can pretty much do anything they want- doesn't make it right. If it's worth it to fight it, then fight it. Research the labor laws and the unemployment qualifications. For instance, you have to have talked to your boss about the problem and gave them a chance to correct it or asked to be transferred. Employers break the law all the time, but very few actually pursue legal remedies. If they don't get called on it they get away with it.
Unfortunately, there are no legal restrictions on how much work an employer can require be done within a set time frame, unless you have a contract stating otherwise.
If you simply believe that the demands of the job are unreasonable -- unless those demands violate the law, like asking you to do something unsafe or illegal or without agreed-upon compensation -- then your only recourse is to leave the job.
I see, and I understand know. I should have had thicker skin when the consumer tossed the proverbial ball of complaints back to me. A shield that reflected the consumers problems back to them.
So picture a 5 lbs balls ( service requests ) being passed down the line of people starting from the consumer and ending with the service technician with a CEO, Directors, Managers and Supervisors all in between. When it gets to the service technician he crushes the ball and meets the consumers demands. The consumer smiles.. Then the ball becomes 10 lbs and the service tech takes longer to crush the ball but the consumer still smiles. The ball then becomes 20 lbs and is too large for the service tech to crush and there are more balls coming his way so he passes it back to the man in front if him (his manager) who passes it back to him. The technician cant crush the ball so he passes it forward to the consumer but the consumer passes it back to him.
So in the event of an issue like this its better to pass the ball to the consumer and put up a shield so the consumer has no choice but to pass it back to the CEO. I get it now, I get that I was in a position my conscience would not allow me to evade.
The judges statement reflected his understanding of this, especially when he asked "Why couldn't you just leave the added service orders on your list and not worry about them?" I think he believes I should have passed the 20 lb ball to the home owner and shielded myself for when it was passed back to me, but my employer didn't give me a shield. They didn't help me find one or help me create one. They simple passed the ball and thought, out of site, out of mind.
I think this whole ordeal has taught me something about myself and my career path. It has taught me about carelessness, which I can never be.
Foiled - I can really relate to your post, and want to make a point that might matter to you... I endured a similar situation for over 2 years, until they finally terminated me due to "lack of performance." I killed myself trying to keep the customers happy and hide how overworked I was to maintain my own reputation and that of my employer. I tried to find the time to look for new employment, but the much longer hours for less pay was taking a severe toll.
Now, 6 months after the termination - I'm still dealing with the very real ramifications of living that way for 2 years, and the medical bills that level of constant stress has required. In retrospect, I now realize that my claim that I couldn't just quit as I had family obligations was wrong, more damage was done in the long run to all of my relationships and my health by staying at that job.
More than likely, based on your info, they were attempting to force you to quit in order to hire someone cheaper. In the long run I think you made the right decision on all levels, even if unemployment doesn't pay. That being said - get an attorney, my understanding is that you can continue to appeal.
Pav, your my new friend. I'm kidding but I appreciate your comments especially since I received a barrage of scrutiny from my best friends and family members because "what about my kids and wife?". I know I tried and its nice to hear someone in the similar situation believes the same. It was more of a harsh reality to me when I was surprised that not only did they mistreat me and the consumers who purchased their product, but I was surprised that they were able to find justification in their actions in a court setting.
Something as simple as a question like "Did I actually tell you to do the added work with less hours?" is indirectly saying, I told you too, but you don't have any proof.
This is much like if I pulled up to a McDonalds with my car and handed 15 dollars to the kids in the backseat before driving off, The know what I meant, but I didn't have to say anything.
What gets me is diorgirls comment is probably true. "Unfortunately, there are no legal restrictions on how much work an employer can require be done within a set time frame, unless you have a contract stating otherwise". I don't have an answer for this except that honest people finish last. I had the evidence of the harsher working conditions but I didn't 'accidentally' injure myself. I could have 'accidentally' swerved off the road after driving 14 hours in order to make an appointment the next morning but I didn't do that. I could have 'accidentally' dropped the product on my foot trying to rush to keep up with their demands.. but then again, they didn't actually tell me to do the work, did they?
Its a tangled web we weave when first practicing to deceive.. and I have to say, my mind is clear as a bell. I'm broke and my family and I can't afford to go anywhere or do anything, our food pantry is nearly empty but I guess something will come along.
Im sorry to hear about your job but the decision you made to tough it out until they fired you, says your a stronger man than me. I feel like I let my family down but your probably right, the end result is the same if you cant keep up with the employers demands, you will be fired for "lack of performance".
I never thought someone could push me around like this though. Justice is something I admired very much. Justice is supposed to be that little thing that sits on your shoulder that says, "don't worry, if you do the right thing, I got your back". I did the right thing but there was no way a judge or anyone else for that matter could have witnessed the things I did to perceive my decisions as being, good! Its sad that the "employee laws" are very short and to the point. "Good cause for quitting" is a relative term, and should not be limited to a short definition or two in a dictionary because employ(ERS) can pre-meditate that definition, play some semantics, toss in some manipulation and do whatever they want.
Ive decided to write a book about this. My first amendment rights allow me to, and if justice cant be served because of manipulating circumstances to heave employers responsibility away from their original obligation sold during the sale, maybe it will be served through awareness to the consumer before the sale.
Does anyone know if I can use my companies name in a book like this? or do I have to be crafty and draw arrows with my words.
I am currently going through an unemployment appeal process as my employer (and consequently, his employees) was breaking the laws in over 40 states. Because I quit, my unemployment was denied. Any advice you can provide would be appreciated.
Obviously your employer was quite aware that the work load was above and beyond. Frankly, if I were you I would have filed for workers comp stating stress and anxiety caused by your work environment. Sadly, the employer has the ball in their court because if you can't juggle all their "balls" in the air, they will find some other poor ******* that will because jobs are so scarce. I had this happen to me many years ago, I was a new employee in a new field for me (employer was aware). I was given minimal training but expected to perform at maximum level. It was insanity, I was bringing home stacks of files trying to complete my work, because, my Project Manager wanted me to do things for him, vs, allowing me to do the job I was actually hired for. I worked so much overtime and he promised me compensation in time, since, he didn't want to show overtime as he needed to keep his budget in order. That wouldn't look good to upper management. I was a temp to hire, so at the time going through an agency until hired permanently. I was a single Mom, I needed to job. I finally had too much, I was a wreck! I didn't know how to deal with this. Well, long story short, I get called in by said Project Mgr and higher up, and, he throws me under the bus and I don't get hired permanently because he has side tracked me so much from my actual job. Oh, man, not a good idea. I am an extremely hard worker but don't underestimate me. I told them about ALL the unauthorized overtime I was owed, about their lack of proper training, and, I got paid for every single bit of overtime and it was quite a lot. I also told the higher ups every little dirty secret that was going on there. I have since learned people will treat how you let them treat you.
This recession has really brought out the best in our employers... NOT. There was a time where loyal hardworking employees were treated fairly and valued. You actually stayed at a job sometimes for 30 years until retirement. Those days are long gone. Everything in our world these days is so transient. There is very little sense of community in the workplace or even just in the world in general. For every advance we get in this world we seem to lose so much in the process that was precious and important to us as a culture and as human beings. If it hasn't been too long, frankly, I would go to a county mental health facility (if you don't have insurance).. and see if you can file for disability insurance due to what has happened. That is if you are truly feeling stressed and overwhelmed by this all. I don't know. I think you got the short end of the stick here. Sorry about that. I would fight if I were you.
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