CA Unemployment Claim denied now for an Appeal help please (receive, record)

[Chardo]

Greetings Guys I was discharged from my employer Kaiser Permanente for Time Card Fraud 2 counts for a combined 29 minutes within the same pay period. I was with the company for a little over 3 years. I wrote that I arrived at work earlier than the time I arrived on two dates FEB 2nd/8th. I was reported anonymously that same week and was interviewed the third week of FEB. My boss thought that it was a legitimate accident/oversight so we tried to think of a way out of it but unfortunately HR sees it in black and white even though I had no prior issues with timecard and I was discharged from the company on 4/9/14. Had my interview with EDD and received my determination letter that I was not eligible because

"You were discharged form your last job with kaiser foundation HOSP because you knowingly entered false information on employer records.

If anyone could provide guidance on how to approach this I would greatly appreciate it.

[Chyvan]

Need more history. What did you tell EDD? What did the employer tell EDD? Do you have an appeal hearing scheduled or are you trying to get help with eloquent things to say on your appeal REQUEST. If the latter, just submit, "the determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled." Then you'll have a good 4 weeks or more to start preparing for your hearing where the actual appealing takes place.

[Chardo]

I told EDD I was discharged for time card and when I called EDD yesterday they wouldn't tell me if my employer submitted anything, but if anything they probably just submitted what was on my termination letter from the company because it was pretty similar in writing. During the investigation interview with my company the only thing they submitted to me was the timecard that I signed. They didn't present any video of me actually signing the time card log so I'm not to worried about them submitting that. When I had my phone interview with EDD the guy was shocked that it took so long for me to be termed after the fact and then I explained that my boss didn't want to fire me and it was out of his hands as he was operating under HR orders. The only leg I have to stand on I think is the fact that they wrote that I knowingly/deliberately did it as I have phone records that I called into work on Feb 8th which is the day that I arrived to work 22 minutes late to let them know that I was running late so it wouldn't make any sense to try to forge anything since I called ahead and it was written in the book that I was late.

[Chyvan]

I still don't really understand things. Are your time cards preprinted or something and you have make CHANGES if you deviate from your standard schedule? Or out of habit do you fill things out a certain way over and over? If so, you can make a strong case that it was habit and not delibrateness that did this to you.

The second thing you can work with is it wasn't a whole lot of time, and third, the employer took two months to fire you, so it sure couldn't have been that big of a deal. Fourth, look to your employer's progressive discipline policy. To me, this situation warranted an adjustment, and a warning, not a firing.

Also, that thing with your supervisor is not clear. If you communicated to him that you needed to get this fixed because you did it by accident, and he was passive about it, that's also not that the actions of someone that did it delibrately.

I think you just need to retell this story only better because I can get why someone that sees 100s of claims a day would deny and not put much work into parsing things out.

Are you still at the REQUESTING an appeal stage?

[Chardo]

I do not have a set schedule it varies, and we punch in normally via an IVR telephone system and if you miss a punch which can be checked on the computer about 4-6 hours later you can fill out an time exception log or Manual time log which is what I did for the two dates in question. Missed punches happen all the time with the phone system, so I've used the manual punch log multiple times before with no issue. I think one of the reasons why I wasn't warned and just let go because something similar happened to another employee in a department close to ours so HR happened to be on a witch hunt at the time, and then I got reported anonymously so they were not sympathetic at all since they had just termed somebody in March over it. The only reason why my termination was delayed was because my manager was trying to prove to HR that it wasn't done on purpose and that I should just get off with a write up. The way this company works is when an employee is up for termination the Manager has the final say, but they have to consult with HR first and HR will give them options. So my manager could have saved me but if he did then his head might be on the chopping block for acting against HR wishes... They gave him three options in my case scenario Resignation,Termination, or Termination and they try to sue me for the $10 that I was over paid. Is that a little more clear? sorry everyone I tell the story to is kind of like "Huh" since it's not the typical case when it comes to this.

[Chardo]

Sorry forgot to answer your question but yes I just received the denial letter/appeal form in the mail today so yes I am.

[Chyvan]

The form is not the place to try to testify or justify things. Just say what I said, and get it in the mail, and start working on redoing your story because to me it's really just not clear what exactly you did wrong. However, there was enough there and some charged words like "falsification," that would have made for a quick denial.

[Chardo]

kk got it thanks Chyvan

[Chardo]

So I went ahead in mailed in the appeal form. I haven't received a date yet but I'm thinking of how to plead my case. My employer stated that I knowingly/willfully falsified my time card hours, but the only thing shown to me during my investigation interview was the manual time sheet that I did fill out with incorrect times on it. Is that enough to prove that I did it on purpose? Should I discuss that I have no motive to defraud the company $10(that is how much it amounted to)?

Also for those wondering about the timeline in CA for EDD right now
4/9-Fired/Filed for unemployment
4/17-Insurance Award letter
4/24-Eligibility Interview Mailed
5/1-Eligibility Interview
5/9-Notice of Determination
5/16-Notice of Appeal acknowledgement

I think the timeline has been pretty good thus far. I called the appeals office to ask for an estimate of about how far they are booking out hearings and the lady on the other end wouldn't even do that for me...

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by Chardo

My employer stated that I knowingly/willfully falsified my time card hours, but the only thing shown to me during my investigation interview was the manual time sheet that I did fill out with incorrect times on it. Is that enough to prove that I did it on purpose? Should I discuss that I have no motive to defraud the company $10(that is how much it amounted to)?

Your employer has to do more than just "state" it. They have to prove it by a preponderance of the evidence. As in, it's more likely than not that you did it on purpose and delibrately. You can deny it, and be sincere about it.

The time sheet is only enough to prove that you did it, not that it was on purpose.

I still want you to know that I don't get it. How did the mistake occur? Who caught the mistake? Did you try to get it fixed? Were your efforts blocked? These all go to proving delibrateness. Making a mistake on a time card is OK. If you turn in enough of them over time, mistakes are going to get made, and that's not misconduct. If you tried to get it fixed, and they wouldn't let you, that's not misconduct. That's the picture you want to paint.