Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I wanted to see if anyone had some advice for my situation. I was fired from my job at the end of May at my job in the state of New Jersey. During the meeting in which I was fired it was brought to my attention that my performance was lacking, which was a surprise to me as I had no prior warnings or write-ups of any kind. During the meeting it was also brought to my attention that they felt I was doing private work on company time and showed me a print of a logo I fixed for a friend. I explained I had done it on my lunch time on a program that I personally paid for. The conversation then went back to performance and that I was fired as of the Friday prior (this was Tuesday as the holiday weekend)
A few days later I receive a letter in the mail stating I was fired for poor performance. I filed for unemployment and was told I’d have a fact finding phone call today Juy 3rd. I was nervous for the call but everyone was telling me not to worry, it was a performance issue…
So my call today was going ok, until the woman I was speaking was brought to my attention that I was fired for Insubordination for doing private work on company time. I told her that was not the case and that I had a letter signed from the COO stating it was “poor performance .” She then put me on hold and called the company and talked to the COO who claimed it was indeed fired for insubordination and that I was warned several times about my performance. I told her I did not at all agree with those statements, I was fired for my performance which up until that point I thought was on par for what they wanted. She asked for a copy of the letter and seemed surprised that the person who told me I was fired for performance was now telling her it was insubordination.
Has anyone else gone through anything like this before and do you have any advice? They held my paycheck for 2 weeks claiming they needed passwords that they already had, I assumed I feel this was the last gams they were going to play. However now I feel situation has taken a turn for the personal and I’m not really sure what they gain outta this.
tl;dr Fired for poor performance, now they are claiming insubordination, what can I expect.
Know the process. In a discharge, the employer has the burden to prove what you did, and that needs to rise to the level of misconduct to be disqualifying. Because you're in NJ, and that state has a "simple misconduct" penalty, the UI interviewers tend to use it as a middle ground when they aren't sure what exactly to do, or just because they want to save the state some money at your expenses. More often than not claimants through admissions make it so the employer doesn't have to prove anything.
This is where keeping your mouth shut comes in. You've possibly made a good admission as to your poor performance because you thought it was ok, but then your employer heaped on a second reason. Under no circumstances say your logo was at lunch time with your own program. It's too touchy. You just go with the fact that you didn't do it at all, and let the employer prove that it really happened, that it was during work, and you were warned.
At this point, you've already had the interview, so you can't undo it for this round. For now, you just need to wait for the decision, and if it's adverse, you appeal. When you appeal, stop telling stories. The appeal letters are REQUESTS, and nothing more. So you just say, "the determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."
That accomplishes two goals. One, you don't provide anymore potential statements out of your mouth that can be twisted against you, and the employer has no clue what you are going to do so they can manufacture/produce additional/better evidence or witnesses. However, you'll have plenty of time after the adverse decision to come back and get help, so worry about it when it happens rather than lose sleep planning for something that may not be necessary. The only thing you can do to help yourself is to save your money so that if you have to appeal, you're not at risk of eviction, driving your car without insurance or something equally bad. Appeals in NJ are still taking about 3 to 4 months so it's quite a wait with no money.
Thank you so much. I had no intention of telling them about the logo but she stated she had already spoken to job and brought it up so I assumed at that point couldn't lie about them. I guess I could have just claimed that I didn't do it and let them try to prove it but I was so caught off guard by the whole different reason for my firing. The interviewer actually put me on hold to call them and when she came back stating they were making these claims I told them that they were false, I did the best job I could do and that the person who told her those things is also the same person who sent me a signed letter stating it was performance. She told me that she needed that letter ASAP and that she was going to try and rush a decision. So hopefully it winds up in my favor, if not I will for sure appeal.
Since you have the letter on performance and were very clear any performance issues were unintentional, employer will have a hard time getting insubordination to stick.
Either way, the penalty is the same. The worst that happens in NJ is you don't begin to receive benefits until eight weeks after discharge - but the total amount you receive is NOT reduced. Benefits just begin later - and, more, importantly, you are not denied. You, of course, can appeal this delay. Meanwhile, you collect after eight weeks while appeal is pending. It can take NJ about 3-4 months to hear an appeal although, lately, we have been reading of shorter timeframes.
Lately, NJ seems to be doing a better job of listening to the employee. Good chance there won't be a penalty.
^Agree with that sentiment. If you have a letter from the employer stating that you were fired for work performance (and they don't dispute sending that letter), it's very likely the claims examiner will go with you. Employers play games all of the time shifting the reason of discharge to try to get themselves out of paying the bill. If you get disqualified, I would absolutely appeal.
Source: I'm a claims examiner with NJ and this is extremely unofficial advice.
I guess as a claims examiner you must see it all. I think part of what caught me off guard with this whole thing is that these guys were my friends, like since we were little kids. So the shock of getting let go, on top of them just lying as to why I was fired. This whole thing certainly changed my 4th of July BBQ plans I can tell you that. I'm guessing they could dispute sending the letter, but it's on company letter head, sent in a company envelope and signed by the COO, but I'm guessing you speak from experience about people disputing sending it. Thank you to you and Ariadne22 for your help, whatever happens I'll update everyone.
I got a letter saying I my discharge was for simple misconduct and that I am disqualified from benefits from 5/18 - 7/12.
I guess this is a good thing? Should I appeal this or do I just take what I'm getting and be happy with that? Thanks for any and all advice.
Well, NJ is back to its old tricks of always favoring the employer. The rule for NJ generally is - "when in doubt, assess a penalty." The employer claiming insubordination is what did it.
I've never been a big fan of appealing an 8-wk dq. because by the time you receive the decision, the eight weeks has gone by and you may not want to give NJ another bite at the apple on revisiting the severity of the penalty.
Further, the 8-wk dq does not reduce the total amount of your claim - you can still collect all the money in the claim - the penalty just means you don't collect for the first eight weeks after discharge.
If you don't appeal and you find a new job before exhausting the claim, of course, you are out those eight weeks.
Read this on possible worst-case scenario on contesting in NJ:
In the end, it comes down to how badly you need those 8 weeks' benefits. Keep in mind, it could take NJ two-three months to hear the appeal and collect those 8 weeks retro - if you win.
You are paid meanwhile. If NJ does to you what it did to the OP of the above thread, you will be on the hook for what you've been paid if NJ imposes a more severe penalty than just simple misconduct.
Based on your description of events, hard to see how they could do that, but anything is possible.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 07-10-2014 at 04:09 PM..
I found the letter to be a little confusing so I hope I am reading it right. I think as long as it means I can still claim after 7/12 then I think I will just chalk it up as a life lesson and move on. I know they don't have any proof and my discharge letter claims something different from what they then claimed in the interview but I also don't wanna give them another chance to claim or invent another reason. I've been fine for the past 8 weeks, but it was going to start getting tight moving forward. Hopefully I'll have a a much better job before the claim is over. Thank you for all of your help and advice, I'm a worrier by nature and your words and advice have helped me greatly.
You should be able to claim (and be paid for) your ninth's week benefits on Sunday, July 20 (for week 7/13-7/19).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
