IL Reconsideration and Appeal (file, receive, claim, payment)

[prettyinpink84]

Hello,

I have read many, many posts in this forum and have not found the answer I'm looking for, so here is my situation:

I was fired on 7/7 and after much encouragement applied for UI on 8/2 (my former employing organization never treated me very well, and I was reluctant to have anything else to do with them). I submitted my application online and had a 602A phone interview on 8/17. In both instances, I did confess to making an honest mistake which did not violate a specific policy, and would not be considered misconduct. If I had found this forum sooner, I would have kept my mouth shut and made them do all the work. Alas.

During my phone interview, the adjudicator informed me that IDES had not received a response from the employer, and stated that she would reach back out to them and I would hear the decision. I later received a letter that my UI had been approved on 8/24.

On 12/9, I received a Notice of Reconsideration and Appeal, followed a week later by a Notice of Telephone Hearing, which is scheduled for 12/29.

The issues to be considered at this hearing are:
- Whether an appeal from the claims adjudicator's Finding or Determination was filed within the 30 day time limit? See 820 ILCS 405/800; 56 Ill. Adm. Code 2720.200.
-Whether the employer filed a timely and sufficient Notice of Possible Ineligibility? See 820 ILCS 405/702; 56 Ill. Adm. Code 2720.130.
-Why was the Claimant separated from employment with the above employer? If discharged, was it for misconduct in connection with the work? If Claimant left voluntarily, was it for good cause attributable to the employer? See 820 ILCS 405/602A and 601A.

Issue 001 602A - Misconduct
Was the claimant discharged for misconduct connected with the work? The evidence shows that the claimant was discharged from ??? because the Claimant made a mistake when there was a delay in entering a Physician's order for a transfusion, no care was denied and the Patient did receive the transfusion after a 2-3 hour delay. Since the claimant's action, which resulted in her discharge was not deliberate or willful, the claimant is not ineligible for benefits from 7/30/2017 in regard to this issue.

On 12/04/2017, an appeal has been filed to the Referee by the reconsideration unit of the agency.

I did go to the IDES office today and obtained a copy of my file. According to the adjudication summary, the employer was contacted right after my phone interview and a message was left requesting "details of the final incident that caused the Claimant to be discharged, the policy that was violated and any write-up's the Claimant received. I need a response no later than 08/21/17." An entry on 8/23 states, "The Employer did not provide any details of the Claimant's discharge from the Employer, there was no contact with the Employer on this issue."

In looking through the rest of the file, there is a protest dated 8/14, which includes a statement from my former manager and a colleague regarding the incident directly preceding my discharge, as well as a copy of my entire HR record and statements from my former manager regarding other issues completely unrelated to this incident. I know those were included to try and make me look bad and build a case for misconduct, but if I've read other posts correctly, those are not allowed to be part of any proceedings, right? Is anything they submitted hearsay?

The letter of appeal is dated 11/27 "in response to the Bis 134.1 dated 10/31," whatever that means. If a party only has 30 days from the date of a Determination to file an appeal, shouldn't this be thrown out altogether? What are my chances?

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to be thorough. Thanks in advance for your response.

[Chyvan]

Something missing in this store is WHEN did the employer actually submit the appeal to your determination awarding you benefits?

Look carefully. A lot of times the employer was timely, and the IDES let it sit. You might think it was late because it's December, but it might have taken IDES that long to do something about it.

Originally Posted by prettyinpink84

there is a protest dated 8/14,

I think this is in response to your initial application for UI. A request for appeal would be dated after your determination granting you benefits.

Originally Posted by prettyinpink84

if I've read other posts correctly, those are not allowed to be part of any proceedings, right? Is anything they submitted hearsay?

Paper alone is hearsay. It can be used unless you OBJECT to it's admission. A piece of paper can't be placed under oath nor cross examined.

You say "former" manager. If it's "former" as in the past and doesn't work there anymore, then the paper will most definitely be hearsay. If it's your "former" as in the one that fired you, still works there, and comes to your hearing, then no, the paper won't be hearsay.

Originally Posted by prettyinpink84

The letter of appeal is dated 11/27 "in response to the Bis 134.1 dated 10/31," whatever that means. If a party only has 30 days from the date of a Determination to file an appeal, shouldn't this be thrown out altogether? What are my chances?

It won't be thrown out solely for being late. The employer is allowed to state a reason for it being late, and might be believed, and the reason might be "good cause," and the hearing will continue. This is where you MUST try to get the hearing derailed. If there is no "good cause" for being late, the judge will stop the hearing, and not go into your separation issue and you will keep your benefits.

"Good cause" is a high bar. It does NOT include things like forgetting, having IDES mail to an old address, or being busy running a business. If the employer says, "we never got the determination," that might work. However, then you need to ask about their UI charge statements. While they may not have gotten the determination, they should have noticed your UI charges coming through, and that might kill there excuse. If you had anything to do with the mail, you can testify, "I worked there x years, and not once did anyone say they mailed anything that wasn't received."

[prettyinpink84]

Thanks for your input, Chyvan.

There's still something tripping me up, though. As I mentioned in my original post, my determination was made based on lack of response from the employer. My file does contain a protest, though, dated the last possible day (8/14), which has a handwritten note to "rescan to SSN xxx," (should have said that before, sorry) with a visible fax date of 9/1, which when coupled with the fact that I did not receive notice of contest, leads me to believe that IDES may have filed it improperly, making it unavailable to the claims adjudicator for Determination. Would that change anything? What impact would that have on my case? If IDES made an error, that's not my fault. I found the following at IDES - Benefit Rights Information for Claimants and Employers

"If no Notice of Possible Ineligibility or letter has been filed within the time limit, the employing unit is not a party to the determination.


Even though an employer does not send a Notice within the proper time limit, the claims adjudicator will consider the information disclosed on the late Notice in making his/her determination or in reconsidering a determination already made. An employer should send a Notice if it believes the claimant to be ineligible, even though the 10-day period has expired. A late Notice does not make the employer a party to the determination and cannot be made the basis of an appeal except with respect to the issues of availability, disqualifying income, refusal of work or “not unem*ployed,” for subsequent weeks. However, the non-party employer will receive a copy of the determination for its information only. (56 Ill. Adm. Code 2720.140)"


If the employer can still base an appeal on charge statements as you mentioned, do you know how often those are typically sent to employers? I can't find anything to that effect in the codes.

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by prettyinpink84

Would that change anything? What impact would that have on my case? If IDES made an error, that's not my fault. I found the following at IDES - Benefit Rights Information for Claimants and Employers

"If no Notice of Possible Ineligibility or letter has been filed within the time limit, the employing unit is not a party to the determination.

It just means that the employer can't be the one to appeal (because they aren't a party), but they can act as a witness. There's three parties here: you, the employer, and IDES. IDES might appeal themselves.

IDES making an error doesn't help you. There's plenty of claimants that are awarded benefits, and then have them taken away. IDES will want it's money back (you can thwart them), but it doesn't change that your benefits are turned off, and the overpayment notices start coming. It just means it's nonfraud, but an overpayment just the same sitting out there with limited collectability.

Originally Posted by prettyinpink84

If the employer can still base an appeal on charge statements as you mentioned, do you know how often those are typically sent to employers? I can't find anything to that effect in the codes.

I don't know what you're asking here.

The employer gets a notice at the time of your application that you applied. That is the time for the employer to make their initial protest. It's a protest, not an appeal REQUEST.

After granting or denying benefits, IDES sends a determination stating WHY you're getting or not getting benefits. That's the time to submit an appeal REQUEST.

After benefits are paid a record is sent to the employer on the status of their reserve account (no less than quarterly. That means the employer would have seen payments made to you around Oct 1. It's now December.)

WHEN was the appeal request received?

Nothing in your hearing notice or the issues hint that the employer is NOT a party. It's about being late, and the date suggests that it was late, but you've said nothing to make it so.

[Rabrrita]

Illinois Courts refuse to disqualify an employer's (or claimant's) appeal rights based on an error of the state. So, if the reason for a delay was at the hands of the State, the Employer and Claimant rights are preserved. Basically, if the employer sent in their paperwork in time and the State didn't handle it properly, it's not held against the employer. If the employer was never notified of the results due to an error of the State, the date they discovered the error and had it timely verified by the State, that is the date their time limit rights start. Any and all delays with the State does not negate anyone's rights, it's just part of the process.

[prettyinpink84]

My hearing was originally set for 12/29. I received a voicemail on 12/28 that the hearing had been rescheduled due to the unavailability of the employer and their witness, and that I would receive a letter with the new date and time.

Hearing was rescheduled for tomorrow at 11:00AM. As of this moment, I have not received an appeal packet. So I don't know who the witness is, or what they're planning on using as evidence against me. What do I do??

[Chyvan]

The time to do something was when you got the call to reschedule. You should have objected. Any employer can say that people aren't available. You need to make them PROVE that the people were unavailable.

At the hearing, if the employer tries to admit any paper evidence, you object to it's admission as evidence because you don't have a copy.

When this stuff happens, it usually means the employer is not coming and the appeal is being handled by a cost control company.

[prettyinpink84]

Had a successful hearing and get to keep my benefits. Thanks for your input.

[Chyvan]

I'm really happy for you. I love winning stories that get posted. It shows others that things can be won all on their own with just a little help.

[Jayson11]

Hello,
I have read a lot of posts on here and haven't seen any situations similar to mine. Hopefully someone will be able to help me out as I'm really desperate and need my UI. I have been discharged from **** for alleged tardiness. I was told verbally by my union(prior to the discharge)rep that management is offering a last chance agreement for a period of 2 years in which I couldn't have any occurrences. I didnt agree with the terms and asked him to work a deal to shorten the length as I felt I deserved a way lighter sentence given my situation. However my rep did not represent me well and I was ultimately let go for not signing. My union rep told me the day after my removal I can resign or if I get fired I can never work for them again. I'm a city carrier assistant which means I'm a non-career employee subject to a 360 day employment term, after in which we have to take a mandatory 5 day off the clock break in service where we are terminated then rehired for another 360 term at the companies discretion. We become career employees as routes become available, based on sonority. until then we are subject to 360 terms, I was going on my 2nd. My 360 day term ended 13 days after the last day I worked or was removed. My big issue is I feel management and my union rep are working together in a sense and railroading me. I haven't received any official paperwork in person or by mail of the personnel action taken against me or why I was exactly removed. However I did receive the SF form 50, 13 days later stating I was terminated due to my 360 day appointment term expiring.. Since I was removed without a clear reason I filed for UI the day after I was verbally told Im removed. I was totally blindsided and did not expect it. I filed the UI application as LAID OFF/Lack of work. It was approved and I received 1 check so far, however I received a letter in the mail about a 602A interview for next monday. I've read up some situations on here and I'm not sure how I should approach this. I want to tell the UI people that I was laid off at the conclusion or end of my 360 day term. The SF form 50 clearly states that. And also states that my last day in pay-status was 13 days after my last day at work. My union rep is not supplying me with any paperwork whats so ever and doesn't answer my calls, he's saying he mailed it and refuses to let me come pick it up. He communicates with me via text. I have an informal EEO open and I'm looking to take the EEO to the next stages, I just dont know how I should approach this unemployment situation.. I had a verbal agreement with my supervisor to have a later starting time for over 8 months ago. Then was hit with a letter of removal for tardiness, but they let me come in later for over 8 months. After the letter I filed a grievance for the letter of removal, my union rep got management to officially change my schedule, however I only have that proof via text message from him, I have no paperwork from them, so it will be hard to prove anything. But I've never signed anything either. Someone please help me, thanks in advance. sorry for such long post