NEVADA misconduct- complaints from customers and employees- thoughts? (receive, apply, claim)

[firedlady]

Hello! I will explain my situation as best I can this is my first time filing for benefits. I really hope i get benefits but i would like some insight as I have no idea if I have a chance.

I was recently fired on 4-20. The small insurance office I was working for was going through reconstruction with changes in job roles and titles and on 4-19 I was just offered a new title. on 4-20 the office manager pulled me aside and told me i was being terminated because she reviewed the role and it didn't have enough responsibilities or amount of work to fill a day and they will not be pursuing the role after all. She stated my personality wasn't a good fit for the office so they were not going to be offering me a different position and I was terminated.
I filed unemployment on 4-20 under "position eliminated." on 5-7 I got a letter saying a misrepresentation needed to be addressed and to answer these questions online from a fact finding worksheet. I filled out the questions online on 5-8 asking me if I was aware of a discharge, and any incidents or final incidents in which I would be discharged. i answered no to all questions as i didn't know the meaning of discharge! (stupid me) I also put in job role information hours worked as well.

I then had a adjudication interview by telephone 5-17 to which the representative asked me questions on the information of my claim and the fact finding above. I told her I didn't know the meaning of discharge when I filed and she said she will notate that since she does not want any fraud, and she said she understood since its my first claim. She then told me that my former employer is stating I was fired because they received multiple complaints from customers and some from employees on my comments. She said they stated a final incident on 4-19 where an employee asked me about what the new position I was to start was and I told her "i'm basically there to help her get organized and help her with all her mistakes" The employer states these are the type of comments I make and why she fired me.
I told the adjudicator I had no knowledge of continuous complaints from customers or employees. I advised her I was never written up, put on any action plan, or was told i had to change any of my behaviors. I told her in that conversation with the employee I said " I would need to be organized with the new role since it has different aspects, and that I will be working with her together on resolving underwriting issues/ mistakes." I told the adjudicator I even talked with this employee out of work as we were friends. The adjudicator asked me if I was informed of the incident at termination to which I told her no. I told her the closet thing relayed to me was my personality was not a good fit.

The adjudicator said she believes she has what she needs and if she needs anything else she may call. Also I will receive a letter to which dependent on the information myself or employer can contest. This is the end of it so far.

SO what do you all think? Can i be approved? If approved how long does it take from here?

[goodlife36]

It does not look good.

[Chyvan]

You can be denied by what comes out of your own mouth.

Originally Posted by firedlady

"position eliminated."

Right up until here, you were doing a great job.

Originally Posted by firedlady

I got a letter saying a misrepresentation needed to be addressed and to answer these questions online from a fact finding worksheet.

This was your first clue that what your employer told you, and what they told the UI people didn't match and you were heading for trouble.

Originally Posted by firedlady

i answered no to all questions

Depending on the questions, this was probably ok.

Originally Posted by firedlady

I then had a adjudication interview by telephone

Fired claimants shouldn't take the call because . . .

Originally Posted by firedlady

She then told me that my former employer is stating I was fired because I had multiple complaints from customers and some from employees on my comments. She said they stated a final incident where an employee asked me about what the new position i was to start was and I told her "i'm basically there to help her get organized and help her with all her mistakes" The employer states these are the type of comments I make and why she fired me.
I told the adjudicator I had no knowledge of continuous complaints from customers or employees. I advised her I was never written up, put on any action plan, or was told i had to change any of my behaviors. I told her in that conversation with the employee i said " I would need to be organized with the new role since it has different aspects, and that I will be working with her together on resolving underwriting issues/ mistakes." I told the adjudicator I even talked with this employee out of work as we were friends. The adjudicator asked me if I was informed of the incident at termination to which I told her no. I told her the closet thing relayed to me was my personality was not a good fit.

Without even knowing if the employer could prove anything, YOU changed your story from "position eliminated" to making excuses for yourself.

Originally Posted by firedlady

myself or employer can contest.

This isn't exactly true. The letter will say whether you are approved or not, and if you want to get benefits, then you submit an appeal REQUEST. If you do this, get HELP BEFORE you do it on your own and probably make a mistake (usually an admission as in admit and justify - like what you did on the phone when the coworker's "fix your mistakes" was turned into "underwriting mistakes" by you. Also, "I didn't know about discharge" which will come across as "I was discharged, and I lied about it" instead of adhering to "a reorganization was in process and my position was eliminated") We now know that "mistakes" were used and someone took it personally, and maybe you admitted to being fired.

Originally Posted by firedlady

Can i be approved?

Yes, but you can be denied also. If approved, great, if not, stop doing things on your own.

Originally Posted by firedlady

If approved how long does it take from here?

We don't have a lot of traffic from NV. Usually, decisions are rendered within 3 to 4 weeks of application submission.

[firedlady]

Thank you!!! I was so nervous as i didn't think any of this was even possible as i wasn't a bad employee! The adjudicator said the employer did tell her of the reorganization in the office and i was in between 2 positions, but that it was not the reason they gave for termination. she asked me if the misconduct was them reason she gave me for termination and i told her no it was not. i also kept telling the adjudicator no i was not told of final incidents, leading events either so this doesn't actually qualify as misconduct anyway correct?

I am very confident the employer cannot furnish proof of complaints since we had a system in which we would input the telephone number to the clients we talked to for them to review us. I had only 5 star reviews when I was let go. I know as well that there is no write up or warning of complaints in writing that I signed either.

when you say not to do it on my own do you mean an attorney?

[Rabrrita]

What Chyvan means is say nothing until you get advice and know what to say. An attorney is unnecessary. The reason is you already made one blunder (correctable) that can work against you and that was allowing yourself to be manipulated into speaking about your conduct at work instead of just sticking with your job was eliminated. Not a single word about anything else should ever had come out of your mouth. Now both unemployment and your employer is alerted that you can be played into speaking about conduct if pressed.

[Chyvan]

You're not getting it

Originally Posted by firedlady

leading events either so this doesn't actually qualify as misconduct anyway correct?

Lot's of things can be misconduct. You don't get to make that decision. The state or a judge in a UI hearing does that. The place you start is the employer can't prove you did something. If the employer can't do that, then it doesn't even progress to someone getting to decide if it was misconduct or not.

Example: You were late, and got fired. Depending on circumstances, it can go either way.

If the employer can't prove that you were late, and you don't admit to it, then no one needs to decide if what you did is misconduct or not because it wasn't proven that you did anything.

Originally Posted by firedlady

I am very confident the employer cannot furnish proof of complaints since we had a system in which we would input the telephone number to the clients we talked to for them to review us. I had only 5 star reviews when I was let go. I know as well that there is no write up or warning of complaints in writing that I signed either.

Great. The employer can't easily prove that any customers complained about you. However, the UI worker told you that "employees" complained about you. Those employees might come to your UI hearing.

Originally Posted by firedlady

when you say not to do it on my own do you mean an attorney?

No - you post your denial if it happens. You get help analyzing what it takes to make that sort of denial stick on appeal, and you STOP TALKING about things you have no business saying.

As a fired claimant, your only legal obligation to the UI system is to say you were fired. It is then up to your employer to prove by a preponderance of the admissible evidence that you committed a bad act that rises to the level of misconduct.

It's very difficult for an employer to do this when a claimant has be trained to SHUT UP. Unfortunately, most claimants read the UI laws and get hung up on the definition of misconduct being a "wanton and willful" act. So they say, "yes, I did do things to make my coworkers annoyed, but since I didn't intend to do that, it's not misconduct," then they lose.

The trained claimant says nothing. Then when the owner or supervisor attempts to testify to what these coworkers said, the claimant says, "objection, hearsay." At that point the claimant just stopped the evidence from being admissible, and ruined the employer's case.

You only go the "it's not misconduct" route AFTER the employer has proven you did anything. Your employer might very well be able to do that with employee testimony because he can make them attend your hearing (though they usually don't because it costs money to have people off work and can really disrupt a busy work environment to have people gone for a UI hearing). However, you never need to worry about customer complaints because the odds of them attending your hearing is very close to zero. Also, a letter written by a customer complaining is NOT evidence.

It's your right to be able to face your accuser, have them under oath, and subject to cross examination. That's why you don't address letters from customers. The customer can write a very accurate letter, and it will only become evidence IF you let it, but responding to it. Example: customer writes a letter complaining you short changed her. It might be 100% true. Customer's not at your hearing. Employer attempts to use letter as proof. You object. The letter author is not at the hearing, not under oath, and you can't cross examine a piece of paper. Letter gets dumped in trash.

OR

You can say, "I know she was probably short changed, but we were really busy that day." (admit and justify). The letter just became evidence, and you just admitted to short changing the customer, and you just saddle yourself with the burden to prove that "we were really busy" and any other worker would have made the same mistake. You'll be on shaky ground if you do this.

This is why you need HELP. I can just tell you are probably honest to a fault. That's great, but I bet you need that UI money a lot more than your conscience will benefit from being so honest that you do the employer's job for them.

[firedlady]

Okay I am now understanding you! Thank you a ton for this help, i will not be commenting on anything other than what i know was relayed to me. Still no update on approval/ decline as it is still pending resolution online and no letter has been received.

I do have a concern/ question about me on the job market. I have a job offer that is pending a successful criminal, education, and employment background check. I am confident in my criminal and education, but now concerned with employment of this employer. I want to state my reason for termination is "position eliminated" but what if they call the previous employer and they say otherwise? this could jeopardize my job offer! How should I go about this? What should i say to the new employer?

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by firedlady

I want to state my reason for termination is "position eliminated" but what if they call the previous employer and they say otherwise? this could jeopardize my job offer! How should I go about this? What should i say to the new employer?

From practical experience when the neighbor kid was honest on his applications and said he was fired, he never heard back from those applications. Mind you the neighbor kid is on the spectrum so he was probably fired because he's a little tough for normal people to deal with. When he started to put on the applications a complete lie, "I was burned by grease from the fryer. When I got better my job wasn't available anymore," he started to get calls from about 25% of the applications he submitted.

Therefore, you might as well say, "position eliminated," and pray. I think if you try to be too honest, you're application will go to the bottom of the pile or in the trash. If they check with your employer and decide not to hire you because of that, there's nothing you can do.

I know some people think that being honest will get you a pass, and that may be true, but I think it only happens when you're the only person to apply of the job and the employer is desperate.

However, if you get UI, your employer has a pretty good incentive to NOT say anything bad about you to a prospective employer so that you get the job, get off UI, and stop bleeding their reserve account. Focus on getting the UI. It will make your life better.

[firedlady]

I wanted to Give an update and let you know i was approved for benefits today! i also recieved the 4 weeks of back pay which is very helpful! the letter stated:

"You were discharged for making false statements. The employer failed to provide supporting documentation to substantiate the behavior that led to the discharge. You deny the employer allegation of any wrong doing. As misconduct in connection with work has not been established, no disqualification will be assessed.

pertinent section of law:
NRS 612.385: a person is ineligible for benefits if he was discharged from his last or next to last employment for misconduct connected to work, and remains ineligible until he works in covered employment and earns his weekly benefit amount in each week up to 16 weeks."

do you believe this is the end now? will they be able to appeal now that i have been approved?

[Chyvan]

Originally Posted by firedlady

She then told me that my former employer is stating I was fired because they received multiple complaints from customers and some from employees on my comments. She said they stated a final incident on 4-19 where an employee asked me about what the new position I was to start was and I told her "i'm basically there to help her get organized and help her with all her mistakes" The employer states these are the type of comments I make and why she fired me.

Originally Posted by firedlady

"You were discharged for making false statements. The employer failed to provide supporting documentation to substantiate the behavior that led to the discharge. You deny the employer allegation of any wrong doing. As misconduct in connection with work has not been established, no disqualification will be assessed.

Originally Posted by firedlady

do you believe this is the end now? will they be able to appeal now that i have been approved?

Hard to say. Look at what the phone interviewer told you vs the decision. They don't look the same. Because I'm cheap and if I were the employer, I'd appeal, but that doesn't mean your employer will.

Spend your money (wisely). When you lose benefits because the decision changed after an appeal, there's ways not to pay back the money so worry about an appeal from the employer when it happens, not now.