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Old 01-22-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,210 posts, read 7,016,485 times
Reputation: 2193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
What is kind of interesting is that I live in an area of very high immigration and people show up new to the country and in no time are earning decent enough money -- one guy gets $300 a week untaxed for basically raking leaves, doing minor home repairs, living on the property as a caretaker, all his living expenses paid -- and he finds work on the side baling hay, landscaping, supervising workers brought and doesn't have a problem getting $20 an hour untaxed.

Too many Americans won't do that kind of work apparently --
Many Americans won't hire Americans for these jobs because they would have to pay taxes on the salaries. They would also be on the hook legally in case of accident. Perhaps you ought to direct your derision elsewhere......
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:44 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,210 posts, read 7,016,485 times
Reputation: 2193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paula05 View Post
I also feel that companies (not all) out there are taking advantage of the current situation, by letting people go even when there is work, and make their balance employee do all the work.
Yes. This is where the increased profits come from - salary cuts.

I've also seen many people laid off and then found that jobs in their fields are now contract jobs, no benefits, paying half of their previous salary. Temp employees (no benefits again) are also increasingly put to use.

This is the underbelly of the recession - even those with jobs are finding themselves with lower salaries, no benefits, decreased security and increased pressure to perform.

That will end well....
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Old 01-23-2010, 09:02 PM
 
26,585 posts, read 61,931,227 times
Reputation: 13161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post
Wait a second. Previously you were lecturing people about changing their expectations and doing whatever they need to and now you are mad at them when they do change their expectations and look for alternative work because it might displace someone else?

Let's face it -if you believe there aren't enough jobs for everyone, and it seems you do, why are you dismissing peoples efforts?
My problem is with people who think they deserve a lower level job over someone without a college education on the sole basis that they have the education. Nevermind that the other person who might only have a GED has been doing labor type work for years, and is most likely going to be much better at it out of the gate.
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Old 01-23-2010, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Spokane via Sydney,Australia
6,612 posts, read 12,821,934 times
Reputation: 3132
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post

What is kind of interesting is that I live in an area of very high immigration and people show up new to the country and in no time are earning decent enough money -- one guy gets $300 a week untaxed for basically raking leaves, doing minor home repairs, living on the property as a caretaker, all his living expenses paid -- and he finds work on the side baling hay, landscaping, supervising workers brought and doesn't have a problem getting $20 an hour untaxed.
What I find interesting is that YOU have no issues with him working under the table for cash (untaxed). Is this what you propose Americans should do as well?
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:24 AM
 
Location: NJ
2,210 posts, read 7,016,485 times
Reputation: 2193
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
My problem is with people who think they deserve a lower level job over someone without a college education on the sole basis that they have the education. Nevermind that the other person who might only have a GED has been doing labor type work for years, and is most likely going to be much better at it out of the gate.
I don't think anyone feels they deserve a lower level job - I think they are depressed that they wasted their education and sorry that is all they can get, but willing to do whatever is needed.

It is unrealistic to expect someone in the middle class/educated group to go back to school for a couple of years and spend $20,000 doing it for retraining each time their field changes or doesn't exist anymore. Nor can someone with a degree in sociology suddenly become a highly specialized engineer overnight. The teaching field is now being flooded with retrainers who are finding that they can't get a job either, and retrained health care workers finding the same.

Nor is it realistic to create a protected class of worker. A dropping tide can lower all boats just as a rising tide raises them all. If you believe in a free labor market - and you claim to, then employers should be free to choose from whatever the available pool is, and if that means they get a group including college guys and GED guys then so be it. And if they choose from the college guys -then that is just free market economics.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,762,991 times
Reputation: 3550
It's very easy to say, "Go back to school, get some new skills" but not everyone can afford school.
Sure you can get loans or grants (depending on your income) but it isn't always that easy.

Can anyone name a country that is solely a service-based economy and is doing VERY well?

We need manufacturing jobs and the faster we dismantle NAFTA, WTO, and all the other disastrous trade policies, the better we'll be.
There needs to be incentives to build our manufacturing base. Our middle class is being decimated.

I laugh at all these projections that health care jobs will be the best jobs. What good is having all these health care jobs if people can't afford health care? I don't deny there is a need for RNs but we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket. I know of some RNs who can't get jobs. It's the same catch-22 you find in many industries: You need experience but no one will hire you to give you experience.

Just as there are some "lazy" unemployed people, there are some people who have jobs right now that could very easily be better fulfilled by someone who is out of work.

I think there will always be a us vs them mentality in the United States until we do something about this income gap we have. There is a big gap between the haves and the have nots.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,697 posts, read 3,476,205 times
Reputation: 1549
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
It's very easy to say, "Go back to school, get some new skills" but not everyone can afford school.
Sure you can get loans or grants (depending on your income) but it isn't always that easy.

Can anyone name a country that is solely a service-based economy and is doing VERY well?

We need manufacturing jobs and the faster we dismantle NAFTA, WTO, and all the other disastrous trade policies, the better we'll be.
There needs to be incentives to build our manufacturing base. Our middle class is being decimated.

I laugh at all these projections that health care jobs will be the best jobs. What good is having all these health care jobs if people can't afford health care? I don't deny there is a need for RNs but we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket. I know of some RNs who can't get jobs. It's the same catch-22 you find in many industries: You need experience but no one will hire you to give you experience.

Just as there are some "lazy" unemployed people, there are some people who have jobs right now that could very easily be better fulfilled by someone who is out of work.

I think there will always be a us vs them mentality in the United States until we do something about this income gap we have. There is a big gap between the haves and the have nots.
The thing that gives me pause about all this "go to school and get a healthcare job" talk is how do people think that any one industry is going to absorb all the nation's unemployed?

Also, not everyone is cut out to be in that field (I know I'm not), so if hypothetically everyone did follow the above advice, chances are sooner or later you or someone you love is going to be treated/cared for by someone who really would be much better off doing something else.

And, yes- who is going to be able to afford all this healthcare? The industry and government are teaming up to make sure that fewer and fewer people can afford care. I've heard of RNs being sent home early because of low populations.

Really, it feels sometimes like I'm living 1984.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:27 AM
 
26,585 posts, read 61,931,227 times
Reputation: 13161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post
I don't think anyone feels they deserve a lower level job - I think they are depressed that they wasted their education and sorry that is all they can get, but willing to do whatever is needed.

It is unrealistic to expect someone in the middle class/educated group to go back to school for a couple of years and spend $20,000 doing it for retraining each time their field changes or doesn't exist anymore. Nor can someone with a degree in sociology suddenly become a highly specialized engineer overnight. The teaching field is now being flooded with retrainers who are finding that they can't get a job either, and retrained health care workers finding the same.

Nor is it realistic to create a protected class of worker. A dropping tide can lower all boats just as a rising tide raises them all. If you believe in a free labor market - and you claim to, then employers should be free to choose from whatever the available pool is, and if that means they get a group including college guys and GED guys then so be it. And if they choose from the college guys -then that is just free market economics.
Based on many comments on these boards, I believe a lot of college educated people think they deserve a job over a non-college grad, regardless of the position, simply on the basis that they've got a college degree.

The company I work for won't hire college educated applicants for our labor jobs. They've done so in the past, and it hasn't worked out. The common concensus is that they are afraid to get their hands dirty, can't physically handle the work, think they are too good to be doing that type of work, look down on other employees, and have to be trained on how to use a screwdriver.

A friend of mine just became an EMT--her education and experience is in art. It took about four months and cost her under $1000 to become certified, including the cost of the certification testing. She was hired within weeks of completion, and the ambulance company she is working for is paying for her to become an EMT-I. After three years they will pay for her to become a paramedic. Finding another career path doesn't always include expensive training.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:30 AM
 
26,585 posts, read 61,931,227 times
Reputation: 13161
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleLove08 View Post
It's very easy to say, "Go back to school, get some new skills" but not everyone can afford school.
Sure you can get loans or grants (depending on your income) but it isn't always that easy.

Can anyone name a country that is solely a service-based economy and is doing VERY well?
The Cayman Islands. No manufacturing, all jobs are service/tourism or financial. Negative unemployment--they need to bring in expats from a variety of companies for the finance jobs, and a lot of the service workers are Dominican.

That said, I do agree that NAFTA was a huge mistake, and we are far too dependent on China and Asia in general.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,762,991 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
The thing that gives me pause about all this "go to school and get a healthcare job" talk is how do people think that any one industry is going to absorb all the nation's unemployed?

Also, not everyone is cut out to be in that field (I know I'm not), so if hypothetically everyone did follow the above advice, chances are sooner or later you or someone you love is going to be treated/cared for by someone who really would be much better off doing something else.

And, yes- who is going to be able to afford all this healthcare? The industry and government are teaming up to make sure that fewer and fewer people can afford care. I've heard of RNs being sent home early because of low populations.

Really, it feels sometimes like I'm living 1984.
Hey, we'll all be nurses and treat each other when the other gets sick!!
That's how I pretty much see the whole, "Get a health care job! BE AN RN!!" mantra.

At one point I thought I wanted to be an RN but I am not cut out for it at all. Every time my co-worker talks about her medical procedures, I feel slightly faint. I couldn't imagine having to look at the blood and all that stuff. Bleh.

A lot of hospitals in my area already have hiring freezes so this whole, "Be a nurse" thing doesn't look like the magic bullet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
The Cayman Islands. No manufacturing, all jobs are service/tourism or financial. Negative unemployment--they need to bring in expats from a variety of companies for the finance jobs, and a lot of the service workers are Dominican.

That said, I do agree that NAFTA was a huge mistake, and we are far too dependent on China and Asia in general.
That can work because of their population (less than 100,000) but do you truly think the U.S. can survive on nothing but service/tourism and financial jobs?

I'd rather the U.S. work on paying off their debts to China and we start trying to bring manufacturing jobs back, slowly but surely.
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