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View Poll Results: Chemtrails...reality or BS?
Reality 27 26.73%
Total BS 56 55.45%
Unsure... 18 17.82%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 12-15-2010, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Terra firma
1,374 posts, read 740,018 times
Reputation: 1070
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
One can only speculate ... but my personal opinion is that since we were born, a particular picture of the world has been painted for us ... Mom, Apple Pie, American, the Red White & Blue ... and the image of utmost integrity and honorable intentions have been infused in us. And we have always viewed our government in a "paternal" image, trusting that good ole Uncle Sam is true blue, and looking out for our best interests, always.

Today, there is a mass conscious awakening taking place ... and with such things as the internet and access to vast amounts of information, it's no longer as easy to conceal certain information as it was years ago. And a heck of a lot of that information is revealing things none of us would like to believe is true ... but from a purely intellectual perspective, much of this information is as irrefutable as it is painful.

It's part of the human psyche that there will be differing responses ... ranging from outrage to fear, and of course, denial. And denial is not an uncommon response to unwanted news .. similar to the mate of a cheating spouse ... they don't want to believe it .. so they wrap themselves in denial. Like children hiding under the bed, their minds look to escape in fear of such unpleasantness, rather than confront it.

And because they are more fearful of the reality that these things could be true, and the obvious implications, they'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that this is all a cruel hoax, and react angrily and sometimes violently toward anyone that is trying to tip over their apple cart. And this response isn't something new ... it's called "shooting the messenger" and it's been part of the human psychology for a long time.

In fact, rational discourse is useless in this case ... because the more evidence you present these types, the more aggressively they'll deny your attempts. They'd rather shoot you than listen, and that's just the way it is.

Just the other evening I was having a conversation with someone at a social event ... and we were politely debating a subject when I pointed out to him a piece of irrefutable evidence that he was ignoring ... and this guy snapped ... he had a total meltdown ... face red as a beet ... puffed up like his was going to have a bloody stroke right on the spot ... started screaming ... THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER!!!!! And he repeated this two or three times ... I was totally caught off guard, dumbfounded really, and though he was pulling my leg at first, but he wasn't ... so after the third time of this shouting "this conversation is OVER ... I said, fine .. if the conversation is over, shut the F$#% up then. And someone had to intervene, and he stomped away. Ever see one of those cartoons with the bull and steam coming out his nostrils? That's what this guy looked like.

The reality is ... this is far more common than having someone say "Oh .. I didn't know that ... wow ... thanks for telling me the real truth". If that's the response you're looking for, you better pack heavy, because you'll be waiting for a while.

They may never overcome their denial ... but if they do ... it will be on their terms, and in their good time ... and not acknowledge you or your facts. The process is well understood in psychology circles ... 1) Ridicule 2) Anger 3) Acceptance

Go confront a fundamentalist religion member ... take your pick , Christian, Muslim, Jew ... and tell them that what the firmly believe in their hearts is bunk ... and see what you receive as a response ... and that might include anything from "get lost" to a beheading, depending on your geographic location

This is the difference between "opinions" and "beliefs". You can debate opinions ... and you might even convince someone to change theirs on an innocuous subject using facts ... but you cannot alter someone's "belief" with facts, because that image of a white bearded grandfatherly figure who floats among the clouds, watching every move you make and deciding whether or not to strike you down with a lightening bolt for looking at a playboy magazine is not factually based. So it cannot be challenged with facts.

So don't bother to point out that little pentagram pendent hanging from Uncle Sam's neck ... it's blaspheme, and you will be ridiculed first, and if you persist, you will be attacked.
I wish I could rep you for this excellent post. You've got the psychology of this issue right on the money.

 
Old 12-15-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: ɐpɐʌǝu 'sɐƃǝʌ sɐl
13,420 posts, read 9,018,107 times
Reputation: 6554
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
A few solid days aye? Well now, Professor ... what's next on your agenda? A two week correspondence course to become a "Brain Surgeon", followed by another solid few days to be a "Rocket Scientist"?

At this rate, within a year, you could be the total repository of all information ever collected by humanity for the past several thousand years ... and be an expert on everything .... or did you already take care of that last year?

Do yourself a favor ... start over ... begin with tic tac toe. That's where you really should be focusing that mind of yours.
Are you really suggesting that it should take longer than that to debunk this nonsense theory?

I wasted more time than I should have - there is no evidence out there that proves that "chemtrails" are anything other than contrails. None that I've seen, anyway, and I've looked at everything that you guys claim is solid evidence. Most of it is a complete joke, and the rest is simply you not understanding the environment and what it's comprised of.

So tell me, Professor, what science have you personally performed to prove your theory? Anything? Didn't think so. You're taking other people's word for the whole kit and kaboodle.

Do yourself a favor ... start over ... begin with tic tac toe. That's you should really be focusing that mind of yours.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: ɐpɐʌǝu 'sɐƃǝʌ sɐl
13,420 posts, read 9,018,107 times
Reputation: 6554
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmycat View Post
Those of us who believe this is really happening are here arguing for a very good reason...we are concerned about the health, safety, and well-being of Earth and the life upon it, and we are trying to generate awareness.
I know that, and I truly believe that your intentions are honorable. Kudos to you for trying to help people and make the world a better place. You're just wrong about this, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmycat View Post
So what's up with the 2 particular posters who argue against us with such vehemence, saying everything they possibly can to try to change our minds, and then insulting, mocking, and throwing fits when we fail to do so? Why would anyone expend that much energy unless it was about something vitally important?

Doesn't take a scientist to figure that one out...
Before I answer that, I want you to specify exactly what it is that you're implying. Don't tiptoe around what you want to say - come out and say it.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 10:22 AM
 
Location: ɐpɐʌǝu 'sɐƃǝʌ sɐl
13,420 posts, read 9,018,107 times
Reputation: 6554
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You can debate opinions ... and you might even convince someone to change theirs on an innocuous subject using facts ... but you cannot alter someone's "belief" with facts
That has sure been proven in this thread.

Just like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, chemtrail conspiracy theorists have adopted a belief system instead of following anything that even slightly resembles the scientific process. They start with a conclusion, then seek out evidence that supports that conclusion, completely disregarding anything that doesn't fit their belief.

Case in point - I brought up the fact that the number of miles flown by commercial carriers more than doubled between 1987 and 2005 - right when some people claim to have started seeing an increase in "chemtrails." That fact went completely ignored by you, the cat lover and anybody else that's chimed in on your side of the debate.

You're completely correct when you say that you can't alter someone's "belief" with facts. You're living proof.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Northern Wi
1,530 posts, read 771,772 times
Reputation: 419
Headline speaks for itself.
Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban



Read more at Suite101: Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910#ixzz18Cug4sER


[CENTER] [/CENTER]
chemtrails over Juan de Fuca Straight
J. Gordon



The UN ban on Geoengineering does not include the United States. Are unknowing Canadians guinea pigs in U.S. chemtrail experiments?


On December 4, 2010, several military planes continued dropping chaff over the Juan de Fuca Straight between Sooke (Victoria) BC and Port Angeles WA.
The chaff, otherwise known as a chemtrail, is used in radar deflecting and geoengineering (weather modification). The chemtrail is not to be confused with a contrail (normal vapour from a plane). Chemtrails do not dissipate like contrails instead they linger in the sky and slowly spread out.
Witnesses say that the planes circled a large area over the straight, seemingly trying to block out the sun. The planes, flying at a higher altitude than commercial airlines, flew back and forth in a circular motion, leaving long trails behind them that contaminated the blue sky.


Read more at Suite101: Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910#ixzz18Cu6Kuxh
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island, New York
15,149 posts, read 4,976,424 times
Reputation: 3278
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmycat View Post
Those of us who believe this is really happening are here arguing for a very good reason...we are concerned about the health, safety, and well-being of Earth and the life upon it, and we are trying to generate awareness.

Others have expressed a belief that chemtrails aren't real, they have voiced their opinion, perhaps posted a couple of times thereafter, and left it at that. After all, why should they get all bent out of shape about something they believe is a hoax, right?

So what's up with the 2 particular posters who argue against us with such vehemence, saying everything they possibly can to try to change our minds, and then insulting, mocking, and throwing fits when we fail to do so? Why would anyone expend that much energy unless it was about something vitally important?

Doesn't take a scientist to figure that one out...

there is ZERO proof of chemtrails

yet 100% proof of contrails


the real question is WHY do YOU think that "someone" is out to get YOU????????
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:49 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
2,806 posts, read 3,801,144 times
Reputation: 3134
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
One can only speculate ... but my personal opinion is that since we were born, a particular picture of the world has been painted for us ... Mom, Apple Pie, American, the Red White & Blue ... and the image of utmost integrity and honorable intentions have been infused in us. And we have always viewed our government in a "paternal" image, trusting that good ole Uncle Sam is true blue, and looking out for our best interests, always.

Today, there is a mass conscious awakening taking place ... and with such things as the internet and access to vast amounts of information, it's no longer as easy to conceal certain information as it was years ago. And a heck of a lot of that information is revealing things none of us would like to believe is true ... but from a purely intellectual perspective, much of this information is as irrefutable as it is painful.

It's part of the human psyche that there will be differing responses ... ranging from outrage to fear, and of course, denial. And denial is not an uncommon response to unwanted news .. similar to the mate of a cheating spouse ... they don't want to believe it .. so they wrap themselves in denial. Like children hiding under the bed, their minds look to escape in fear of such unpleasantness, rather than confront it.

And because they are more fearful of the reality that these things could be true, and the obvious implications, they'll do whatever it takes to convince themselves that this is all a cruel hoax, and react angrily and sometimes violently toward anyone that is trying to tip over their apple cart. And this response isn't something new ... it's called "shooting the messenger" and it's been part of the human psychology for a long time.

In fact, rational discourse is useless in this case ... because the more evidence you present these types, the more aggressively they'll deny your attempts. They'd rather shoot you than listen, and that's just the way it is.

Just the other evening I was having a conversation with someone at a social event ... and we were politely debating a subject when I pointed out to him a piece of irrefutable evidence that he was ignoring ... and this guy snapped ... he had a total meltdown ... face red as a beet ... puffed up like his was going to have a bloody stroke right on the spot ... started screaming ... THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER!!!!! And he repeated this two or three times ... I was totally caught off guard, dumbfounded really, and though he was pulling my leg at first, but he wasn't ... so after the third time of this shouting "this conversation is OVER ... I said, fine .. if the conversation is over, shut the F$#% up then. And someone had to intervene, and he stomped away. Ever see one of those cartoons with the bull and steam coming out his nostrils? That's what this guy looked like.

The reality is ... this is far more common than having someone say "Oh .. I didn't know that ... wow ... thanks for telling me the real truth". If that's the response you're looking for, you better pack heavy, because you'll be waiting for a while.

They may never overcome their denial ... but if they do ... it will be on their terms, and in their good time ... and not acknowledge you or your facts. The process is well understood in psychology circles ... 1) Ridicule 2) Anger 3) Acceptance

Go confront a fundamentalist religion member ... take your pick , Christian, Muslim, Jew ... and tell them that what the firmly believe in their hearts is bunk ... and see what you receive as a response ... and that might include anything from "get lost" to a beheading, depending on your geographic location

This is the difference between "opinions" and "beliefs". You can debate opinions ... and you might even convince someone to change theirs on an innocuous subject using facts ... but you cannot alter someone's "belief" with facts, because that image of a white bearded grandfatherly figure who floats among the clouds, watching every move you make and deciding whether or not to strike you down with a lightening bolt for looking at a playboy magazine is not factually based. So it cannot be challenged with facts.

So don't bother to point out that little pentagram pendent hanging from Uncle Sam's neck ... it's blaspheme, and you will be ridiculed first, and if you persist, you will be attacked.
I wish I could rep you again as well...EXCELLENT post !
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:50 AM
 
19,220 posts, read 5,901,322 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNort View Post
Headline speaks for itself.
Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban



Read more at Suite101: Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910#ixzz18Cug4sER


chemtrails over Juan de Fuca Straight
J. Gordon



The UN ban on Geoengineering does not include the United States. Are unknowing Canadians guinea pigs in U.S. chemtrail experiments?


On December 4, 2010, several military planes continued dropping chaff over the Juan de Fuca Straight between Sooke (Victoria) BC and Port Angeles WA.
The chaff, otherwise known as a chemtrail, is used in radar deflecting and geoengineering (weather modification). The chemtrail is not to be confused with a contrail (normal vapour from a plane). Chemtrails do not dissipate like contrails instead they linger in the sky and slowly spread out.
Witnesses say that the planes circled a large area over the straight, seemingly trying to block out the sun. The planes, flying at a higher altitude than commercial airlines, flew back and forth in a circular motion, leaving long trails behind them that contaminated the blue sky.


Read more at Suite101: Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910#ixzz18Cu6Kuxh
They could have been lost, or just changed their mind about where they were going.

I'm going to have to agree with Swagger - there's no proof as to what was going on.
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Long Island, New York
15,149 posts, read 4,976,424 times
Reputation: 3278
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNort View Post
Headline speaks for itself.
Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban
so a 'headline' from some ananomouse 'site' speaks for it self

yet the picture is of CLOUDS and 2 contrails


IF, and that's a big IF, the "OMG Government" was "spraying " people...dont you think, dont you just think they would do it at a lower altitude, where they could CONTROL it??????

why spray, when they could EASILY do it through the water system?????


2 questions that the 'con theorists' .....WONT ANSWER
 
Old 12-15-2010, 11:54 AM
 
19,220 posts, read 5,901,322 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UpNort View Post
Headline speaks for itself.
Dec 2010 - Chemtrails over Victoria BC after UN ban
That UN!

They're a buncha socialists, yet don't play well with others, like us, for instance.
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