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Old 03-28-2012, 01:12 PM
 
10,891 posts, read 9,067,869 times
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Default The Amityville Horror Case - my perspectives, your thoughts for people open to the paranormal

Hi everyone! I grew up in Oyster Bay NY on Long Islands North Shore in the 1970s. I was a teenager during this time, and naturally, given my interests, the case intrigued me then and now.

I know that some people believe the Warren's completely, and the account given in Jay Anson's book. I know the two groups do not completely agree, but they do on certain things: The Lutz family was honest and bought the home to live in because it was an excellent deal, since it is a "stigmatized property" under NYS law (not sure if it was in effect then but the idea was, everywhere - people are not generally clamoring to by properties where a murder, suicide, or other gruesome event has taken place). That is true, weather people believe in the paranormal or not.

This fist group believes the account as given by Anson, The Warrens and The Lutz family, who bought the house after the murders.

The second group just thinks that they made the whole thing up to get a book and movie deal because they were experiencing financial problems.
They say that the Lutz's were scam artists, as were the Warren's, and that the book and subsequent movies were fictitious.
Later owner's of the house also fall into this group, with most only complaining about cars driving slowly past the house, teenagers hanging out, and wanna be witches hanging around on Halloween.

I believe something different. I grew up only 25 miles away from the house.
In the summer, between my sophomore and junior years of college, I was staying with my Aunt on Eastern LI (not in Amityville) because I had a job as a receptionist in my uncle's office. The office manager was a middle aged woman who had roots in the area going back to the 1600s. So did her husband. Her last name was the same as the first Europeans to "purchase" the home from the Native Americans in the 1600s. When I noticed it, I asked if there was any connection.

There was. That Summer I learned a great deal about the real story of the house and what had gone on from the beginning, until then. She also told me something about the current owners, that due to a chance encounter, rang true. She told me, under no uncertain terms that her husband's ancestor had been a practicing "black sorcerer" as had is ancestors in England. He was also an ordained minister in the Puritan Church (later Congregational) He and his family were expelled from Connecticut for these practices, and arrived on Long Island via the LI Sound.

That same summer, a local English Teacher, and freelance writer, was writing a book about the true story of the house. A historical, and unsensationalized
view point that did not discount what he saw as the truth about the property, and supernatural elements involved, OR the fact that certain things had been exaggerated in the book and movies.

HOWEVER, just because somethings had been made "more interesting" and the Lutz family were involved in a sort of a scam,does not mean that the house is normal and the whole story was confabulated. The Lutz's were scared out of the home, and they could not fulfill their contractual agreement, which was to live there for one year, because of disturbing paranormal events in the house. (I'll explain what the agreement was)

It would have exposed a lot of people, including the current owners, the Lutz family, and others. It also would have brought to light the nefarious and supernatural activities associated with that property, before the current house was there, before the first house and the connection to Satanism of the first European owners of the land, and why they wanted that particular piece of land so much.

In early September, the would be author of this book, a life long boater, fisherman, former lifeguard and college swim team member, took his boat out on the Peconic Bay. He knew these waters "like the back of his hand" As was his custom, he intended to alternate between fishing and writing. He had the manuscript, notes, statements and original documents with him. In short, everything that backed up his case.

He never returned to shore alive. Parts of his boat were found by rescue teams. They looked as though they had been in a hurricane.
The fiberglass Boston Whaler was destroyed. That is a pretty sturdy boat.

His body washed up on shore. There was no evidence of fowl play, and the coroner ruled the death "an accidental drowning", this from a man who was an avid swimmer and boater, and had lived on that coast all of his life. He was healthy, 42 years old with no medical problems. People who knew him said he could have swam to shore.

The manuscript and other supportive documents, some originals dating back 300 years, were never located.

I saw some of them and he told me the story and the background. I still have a signed copy of his first book, which was about ghosts.

Any thoughts or comments?
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,246 posts, read 9,579,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
... That is a pretty sturdy boat.

His body washed up on shore. There was no evidence of fowl play, and the coroner ruled the death "an accidental drowning", this from a man who was an avid swimmer and boater, an...


Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Anyway, I don't completely buy the Amityville Horror story. I've read the book and think it is clearly sensationalized. I think it is possible the Lutz's experienced some real "run of the mill" paranormal activity, but it most likely wasn't "interesting" enough in print form and was embellished more than slightly as the story grew to Hindenburg sized porportions. Mr Lutz was always quick to say he lost money on the situation, but plenty of business ideas fail completely, so that doesn't tell me it's true. In the end though, it's a tainted tale that does nothing to further our understanding of the supernatural.

I have little to no respect for the Warrens... I think they were first-class charlatans who did what they did for the for the money and prestige of being called "Demonologists", and the fact they normally charged for their "services" speaks volumes about their true intentions.

One thing does bug me about the case however:



Sure the photo could have been faked, but I've seen that look before in one of my own paranormal experiences. It gives me the chills just to look at it. Maybe I saw the picture before and my subconscious dug it up and put it in a hallucination, or maybe it's the real deal. Who knows?
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
1,614 posts, read 1,061,551 times
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This is a very interesting point made, since I read the book and saw several of the movies, but never heard this account. I wonder if the guy drowned by an unknown force not wanting him to tell the true story?
One thing that I find confusing is that you say the Lutzs' were involved in some sort of a deal and did want to profit from living in the house, but even so, the house really was haunted. I also come from Long Island, but west of Amityville, I've passed by the house and never got a good feeling from it, so I think the house can be located in a vortex of evil.

What sort of contract did the Lutz' break when they left the house? Do you know the original deal? Why do you think other people have lived there without being bothered by these events, while others have had problems?

I know the house sold for around 1.5 million a couple of years ago..

Between the school district and the house you can keep it!
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
1,614 posts, read 1,061,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Anyway, I don't completely buy the Amityville Horror story. I've read the book and think it is clearly sensationalized. I think it is possible the Lutz's experienced some real "run of the mill" paranormal activity, but it most likely wasn't "interesting" enough in print form and was embellished more than slightly as the story grew to Hindenburg sized porportions. Mr Lutz was always quick to say he lost money on the situation, but plenty of business ideas fail completely, so that doesn't tell me it's true. In the end though, it's a tainted tale that does nothing to further our understanding of the supernatural.

I have little to no respect for the Warrens... I think they were first-class charlatans who did what they did for the for the money and prestige of being called "Demonologists", and the fact they normally charged for their "services" speaks volumes about their true intentions.

One thing does bug me about the case however:



Sure the photo could have been faked, but I've seen that look before in one of my own paranormal experiences. It gives me the chills just to look at it. Maybe I saw the picture before and my subconscious dug it up and put it in a hallucination, or maybe it's the real deal. Who knows?

I think that's what the OP meant that some thing was wrong there but not anything as sensational as what was depicted in the book or the movies.

How do you know that the Warrens charge money to investigate? I knew some women who thought their apartment was haunted in the late 80s, and they called the Warrens. They didn't end up doing the investigation, they moved, but they told me there was no fee.

I think it's very weird that a man who was about to write a book about the house drowned at sea and lost his manuscript.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,246 posts, read 9,579,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
I think that's what the OP meant that some thing was wrong there but not anything as sensational as what was depicted in the book or the movies.

How do you know that the Warrens charge money to investigate? I knew some women who thought their apartment was haunted in the late 80s, and they called the Warrens. They didn't end up doing the investigation, they moved, but they told me there was no fee.

I think it's very weird that a man who was about to write a book about the house drowned at sea and lost his manuscript.
Ed and Lorraine Warren - eNotes.com Reference

Lorraine says "they never charged for investigations" but "accepted donations for the cost of investigations"

Not to mention the income from their lectures, books, TV appearances, occult museum, ect... The Warrens made quite a comfortable living out of their work.

Deconstructing the Warrens and the Amityville Horror
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
8,144 posts, read 3,820,313 times
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I doubt any of it was true, if the house was built on an Indian burial ground or some sacred site that could get the imagination going wild and it's been proven that hormonal changes in teenagers can trigger all types of hallucinations and the brain is also largely unknown territory. I've read that most hauntings involve teenagers.. wasn't it proven that Amityville's haunting was all a scam to get rich quick? It reminds me of all those mediums who charge people for their "gift" ...
and about the guy drowing with his manuscripts...maybe it was all fake(some fake stuff looks more real than the real stuff) and he knew he could never get away with it all ...he could have demolished his own boat and took his own life, stranger things have happened
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: playing in the colorful Colorado dirt
4,487 posts, read 2,346,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Ed and Lorraine Warren - eNotes.com Reference

Lorraine says "they never charged for investigations" but "accepted donations for the cost of investigations"

Not to mention the income from their lectures, books, TV appearances, occult museum, ect... The Warrens made quite a comfortable living out of their work.

Deconstructing the Warrens and the Amityville Horror
I love the "Deconstructing the Warrens" article.

insightful with just a hint of well placed sarcasm. Who wrote it?
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
2,699 posts, read 3,295,716 times
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Ghost caught on tape - YouTube
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,246 posts, read 9,579,858 times
Reputation: 10238
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman View Post
I love the "Deconstructing the Warrens" article.

insightful with just a hint of well placed sarcasm. Who wrote it?
it's from the "Cthulhu Calling!" blog, but I don't know anything about the guy otherwise. I liked it too.

The sad thing about the subject is there is SO much garbage mucking up the waters of what otherwise is a real and probably completely misunderstood phenomenon. I am convinced Ghosts (and UFOs) are real, are the same phenomenon and are not what we assume they are (I.e. the disembodied spirits of the dead and space aliens), but an otherwise logical and natural phenomenon that is currently unknown to science.

Anyway, my rule of thumb is that if there is a hollywood movie about it, the story is most likely a complete lie or it has been vastly exaggerated and flavored so much as to be completely unrecognizable from it's original reality.

Real paranormal phenomenon is incredibly frightening/disturbing to experience but it makes poor entertainment material, as true paranormal also directly effects the human mind itself in ways that are not understood. (also making it almost impossible to seperate fact from fiction, BTW). It is also impossible to convey the feelings from seeing something happen that logically shouldn't happen in real life through an entertainment medium that regularly shows things that shouldn't happen. A door opening by itself in a movie will bring yawns, but if you are alone at home at 2:00 AM and a door opens by itself... Well, you get the idea.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: On the Ohio River in Western, KY
3,322 posts, read 3,134,156 times
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I personally feel it's a hoax brought on by the Defao guy wanting a good excuse for why he did what he did.

I don't deny there might be some crazy stuff going on, but I think the book and movie were brought about to help his case.
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