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Old 10-04-2007, 07:26 PM
 
5,635 posts, read 13,976,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
It's my opinion that those who claim to have come back from the dead were never dead in the first place. If someone came back after having rigamortus then I'd say you might be onto something but that's never happened. Medical advances have allowed people to be revived who appeared to be dead. There was no heart beat or brain activity but they were revived. People have survived for surprising long periods of time when they were in freezing water and paramedics were able to bring them back. It's quite possible that there's no exact instant of death if your body is still intact and that these near death experiences are exactly what they're called: NEAR death, not beyond death and back again. I suspect that researchers who claim that these experiences are the result of the activities in the brain are probably right.
I agree, except, if you guys would have listened to the files, you would see that these are cases where peope accurately reported things that they had no way of knowing (car crashes, things happening across the hospital, witnessing doc/nurse doing things they shouldn't be doing, peeking into a house a few miles away, etc). Also, the docs in this story that were skeptics are now deists. Some put their reputation on the line to backup the claims (pacemarker pioneer, etc). These accounts were also written down immediately after the NDE as to keep the story from being embellished.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Wilmington, DE
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Any chance you can find the list that he refers to that was handed out. You know, the one with all the sources? That would be nice for starters.
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Old 10-04-2007, 11:23 PM
 
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I couldn't get the video to open but I listened to the whole audio & it was fascinating! I'm going to try to find the books by that Dr. Sabaum.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyChief View Post
Any chance you can find the list that he refers to that was handed out. You know, the one with all the sources? That would be nice for starters.
Philly,
I have no idea where to get that. YOu can buy his book on amazon.com and it lists these cases and their references. See: Amazon.com: Beyond Death: Exploring the Evidence for Immortality: Books: Gary R. Habermas,J. P. Moreland

Also, on his website I found the following info:

"The book provides about 20 evidential cases of various sorts, including detailed references. Please let me know what you think about these matters. Systematic Theology (Bethany). "

That's all I could find...amazingly Google does not show much info on this book. I guess no one really knows about it? If you find anything, let me know. I'd like to view the references too.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:43 AM
 
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Extraordinary claims with fairly ordinary and plausible explanations, and no references. Not impressed.
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Old 10-05-2007, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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TexasNick,
I would agree with you that if there was some tangible evidence that someone was somehow conscious and outside of their body and was able to see something they couldn't possibly see from the vantage point of their body that this would be extrordinary evidence that a soul may actually exist. However, there are so many of these claims and book stores are filled with stories describing supernatural events while a dying person is outside of their body and yet no one has really presented really solid evidence. I'm talking about the kind of evidence that could be used in a court of law, not heresay. If you do happen to find something you find compelling please post it and we can discuss it. I'm more than a little skeptical that anyone can back up these stories because I don't believe they're real. I'm sure that many individuals may strongly believe that they've left their body so I'm not saying that they're lying. I'm just suggesting that it's most likely brain activity that occurs when someone is suffering a major trauma.
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Old 10-10-2007, 11:08 AM
 
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I have been unable to find any record of a Muslim NDE. I understand that they consider it blasphemy to talk about their god under a NDE, but this should be no excuse for the lack of NDE accounts. I did find 1 account, but it was not verified and there were no sources to verify proving it was not embellished.

Anyone know of any non-Christian NDE accounts that have been confirmed on the basis of evidence rather than just an embellished story? This has been a VERY INTERESTING topic for me to research.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
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One aspect of this subject needs to be looked at. There are religions who believe in reincarnation and it's quite common for individuals to become convinced that they existed as another individual. That's part of their religion and culture just as a near death experience is part of ours. I suspect that the reason that you find the reports of these experiences is because they're occuring in Christian societies and it's playing a part in how people think. If these experiences were really a part of the human experience I think we'd be getting accounts of near death experiences from every culture in the world.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:01 AM
 
5,635 posts, read 13,976,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontanaGuy View Post
One aspect of this subject needs to be looked at. There are religions who believe in reincarnation and it's quite common for individuals to become convinced that they existed as another individual. That's part of their religion and culture just as a near death experience is part of ours. I suspect that the reason that you find the reports of these experiences is because they're occuring in Christian societies and it's playing a part in how people think. If these experiences were really a part of the human experience I think we'd be getting accounts of near death experiences from every culture in the world.
Montana, we do get accounts of NDEs from every culture of the world according to the studies and listening to the author of various NDE books. There's even a huge NDE website that catalogs this stuff (only the evidential cases).

The pattern, though, is freaky. Lots of negative experiences in non-Western societies. One thing is universal: bright shining light that is shown to be a "supreme being". This goes against Buddhist, etc.

Look into a guy named HOWARD STORM. Atheist turned pastor. Not saying it's true, but he was convinced enough that his NDE was authentic.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Arizona, The American Southwest
51,816 posts, read 29,898,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeDog View Post
Those videos are not evidence of anything other than undocumented testimonials. In essence, worthless.
There are hundreds of documented cases of people who have experienced this and they all said pretty much the same thing, it's pretty hard to dispute that isn't it?
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