The Alternate Explanation Repository (psychic, orbs, phenomena, ghost)
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With all due respect, I think this subject has been discussed in many threads, and post in this forum.
Someone mentioned round orbs in their house, and someone else mentioned orbs near their swimming pool.
Most who answered those threads had a variety of possible explanations as to what they were.
This is just one example so, I don't think your thread was actually necessary.
Bob.
If you can point out where I'm asking people to prove their unexplained experiences, go ahead and try. You will not be able to, because I'm not, and nothing I've said or implied in this thread alludes to such an intent. Where you are getting this from, I have no clue.
If someone comes up to you and asks you, "Hey, is this paranormal? My pencil rolled off the desk all by itself."
Would you consider that by asking them if the surface was uneven, or if there was a fan blowing at it, you're asking them to prove that the occurrence was paranormal? I wouldn't. I would consider that ruling out the common causes first, so they can then be sure that what they are dealing with isn't a simple effect of physics.
There is no need for someone to become afraid of their own home if they can do a little critical thinking to rule out other causes before exploring the unknown. It's not denying the unknown exists, nor is it seeking to demand proof of it. It is simply utilizing common sense to rule out any other cause before making a premature assumption.
Why you don't see this as a good thing, and somehow feel threatened by something that is objectively a positive thing for anyone, regardless of their beliefs, is disturbing, but not altogether surprising.
While I had wished this to be a simple place to rule out common misconceptions so actual discussion about real UNEXPLAINABLE events can take place, I guess it's asking too much to simply have it in one thread, versus every single thread.
I didn't expect this place to be so full of closed-minded people, especially for the kind of forum it is...
Your thread ASSUMES that people are not ruling out "common causes first." That is condescending. This thread is TOTALLY unnecessary. People aren't the complete dolts you seem to think they are.
Your thread ASSUMES that people are not ruling out "common causes first." That is condescending. This thread is TOTALLY unnecessary. People aren't the complete dolts you seem to think they are.
Some people who are very much into the paranormal get tunnel vision and do not always see every plausible explanation. If they do not provide a list of what they have ruled out are we just supposed to guess?
Some people who are very much into the paranormal get tunnel vision and do not always see every plausible explanation. If they do not provide a list of what they have ruled out are we just supposed to guess?
You don't have to do anything. People who are sharing first hand experiences have the EXPERIENCE of knowing - the purpose of posting is not to PROVE their experiences to skeptics but to share with others.
You must be a materialist. Do you "believe" in electricity? You can't SEE it, so maybe it's not real.
I just wanted to make this thread in the hopes that others may join together to put aside personal bias and belief and form somewhat of an objective repository for alternatives to common assumptions when it comes to the paranormal.
For instance, providing the alternative to "orbs" as being "dust particles" being the most obvious example.
However, I would like to utilize the resources of our collective minds, believers and skeptics alike, to catalog any number of possible explanations to common perspectives of events and phenomena so that they may serve as a resource to others seeking to explain events prior to making a judgment about them.
I don't mean this to be solely a skeptic's comeback repository. I do encourage debate for both sides, however I'm hoping we can use this as a place to offer up alternative theories in regard to events that people may be witnessing, not in the intent to disprove, but to offer up various other possibilities that others may not have considered.
To start this off:
I have a cat that stares at the corner of the wall from time to time, often tracing a pattern, as though he's seeing some invisible movement that I cannot see. I have heard of many other people experiencing this same phenomenon. However, I have not seen many other people address the fact that cats (and dogs) have far better hearing than humans do. In fact, cats (and dogs) hear well outside the frequency range that humans can hear. It's also a fact that their ears are more sensitive to the slightest of sound.
Now, imagine if there are insects crawling in the walls, or a rat, or simply an imperceptible creak made by slight pressure of wind. While you may not hear or see the source of interest, would it not be wise to consider that an animal with greater sensory perception than your own can?
Out of general observation of my own cat, and the many I've known throughout my life, I know that they track sound that is ahead of them by moving their heads, because they cannot move their ears to a more forward position than they already are. They will follow a sound as though they are looking at it, when it is in front of them. Using this observation, I can compare it to the behavior of my cat and make a more likely assumption that my cat is hearing something moving around in the walls before I can make the assumption that he is watching an unseen spirit floating around in the corner, whether I believe in spirits or not.
I think this is a healthy exercise, and I think I would be doing myself a disservice to not consider such things before moving on to the more esoteric aspects of analysis.
It is in this way that I think we can help each other work through the known before we step off into the unknown, not only because it is the natural flow, but because it may save ourselves any undue stress or worry that can be avoided, where applicable.
So, please help me in adding some alternate explanations to common phenomena that others may not have had the chance to explore.
I see your point.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism. There are many things that, at first, seem paranormal but are later found to have a logical explanation.
Then again, there are those things that simply defy logic and cannot be explained away.
I may be a life long believer but i'm also a logical person and not given to blindly accepting every seemingly strange event as paranormal.
Your thread ASSUMES that people are not ruling out "common causes first." That is condescending. This thread is TOTALLY unnecessary. People aren't the complete dolts you seem to think they are.
You're not making a very good argument for them by completely manipulating my intentions to fit your assumption of what it is you think I'm doing. Not only are you wrong, but you're also apparently incapable of seeing this through any other perspective than the defensive one you're seeing through now, which is strange, because I never implied that I thought people were "dolts", and honestly, it seems like this issue is existing in your own mind, because you're obviously not getting this from me.
If you want anecdotal evidence as to why this thread is a good idea, I can scroll through the first couple pages on this forum and give you plenty. I've seen many people legitimately scared of their own homes and the only support they're getting only serves to encourage that fear without even the slightest attempt to alleviate that fear by helping to engage the person and talk them through possible scenarios. While you may think that would be condescending, I beg to differ that it's not, because it would be a mistake to assume that every one of these individuals have already ruled absolutely everything out that there is to rule out. Fresh perspectives and opinions are a valuable asset because none of us are perfect, and none of us can cover every angle or base. To assume that we can is indicative of a highly irrational and inflated sense of ego, and I find that to be more dangerous than anything.
So while you may think that you're doing some good by resisting common sense approaches for the sake of not being "condescending", you're really just making things worse. Especially when there are people out there that may really need help to come to terms with things in their lives that are causing them undue stress and torment. Sorry, but I'd rather actually help. I'm sorry that your very obvious hangup does not allow you to see it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imcurious
You don't have to do anything. People who are sharing first hand experiences have the EXPERIENCE of knowing - the purpose of posting is not to PROVE their experiences to skeptics but to share with others.
You must be a materialist. Do you "believe" in electricity? You can't SEE it, so maybe it's not real.
I don't know why people always bring up this electricity argument in a comparison with paranormal things. Electricity is easily measured, and can be quantified repeatedly and on demand. We don't have to see electrons to know they are there. We benefit from their behavior on a daily basis, and if we do want to see electricity, all we have to do is become statically charged, turn out a light, and touch something that is grounded. P.S. you will also feel it, in addition to seeing the arc.
People that use this argument to compare to why people believe in the paranormal are not doing their own critical thinking abilities any favors. Paranormal events differ in the fact that you cannot measure them definitively with any consistency or quantifiable way. And yes, I know you're thinking about EMF gauges and all that, but that doesn't measure paranormal activity. That measures electromagnetic fields, which is proof of electromagnetism, even when you can't see it!
Anyway, I digress. I don't want to get into a debate about whether paranormal occurrences are provable or not. That's not what this thread is for. I just thought I would reply to your fallacious comparison about electricity. It's not making a leap of faith to believe in electricity. If you think it is, then something is very wrong here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pamelaBeurman
I see your point.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a little healthy skepticism. There are many things that, at first, seem paranormal but are later found to have a logical explanation.
Then again, there are those things that simply defy logic and cannot be explained away.
I may be a life long believer but i'm also a logical person and not given to blindly accepting every seemingly strange event as paranormal.
I agree, and I think this is the most balanced approach to things like this.
You don't have to do anything. People who are sharing first hand experiences have the EXPERIENCE of knowing - the purpose of posting is not to PROVE their experiences to skeptics but to share with others.
You must be a materialist. Do you "believe" in electricity? You can't SEE it, so maybe it's not real.
The experience of knowing... what? That they experienced something?
The experience of knowing... what? That they experienced something?
Materialists will not give any credence to this, but the experience of KNOWING is crucial to human perception . . .intuition and KNOWING are two key factors that have kept the species going . . .but you can't "measure" them, so you ridicule them . . .but they are important.
I am done arguing with skeptics. It's a dead-end.
If skeptics take over this forum, it will be the end of it (speaking of ends).
The old saying is "keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out"
I'm one who has experienced several unambiguous paranormal events but even I know 95% of the supposed "paranormal" really isn't paranormal at all... or even unusual. Orbs are the best example of this that I can think of... they just aren't ghosts!
I think that if all the B.S. wasn't around clouding the truth, science would have taken the subject seriously and maybe we could of had some real answers by now.
Materialists will not give any credence to this, but the experience of KNOWING is crucial to human perception . . .intuition and KNOWING are two key factors that have kept the species going . . .but you can't "measure" them, so you ridicule them . . .but they are important.
I am done arguing with skeptics. It's a dead-end.
If skeptics take over this forum, it will be the end of it (speaking of ends).
Knowing is definitely an integral part of our existence. How could we make decisions reliably otherwise? However, knowledge has to be based on a foundation as well. We can't simply decide arbitrarily that we know something, otherwise we're liable to "know" a bunch of unsubstantiated, false things.
And yes, you CAN measure knowledge. (That's where "knowing" comes from)
You do it by comparing evidence and deciding on which set of evidence is more compelling. If knowledge is solely based on a feeling and nothing more, then I'm sorry, but you are simply assuming. Which is precisely what you accused me of doing.
And you keep saying you're arguing with skeptics as though you think anyone with any rational inclination at all is therefore absolutely opposed to the existence of unexplainable phenomenon. If you actually think this, then I fear that your ability to see outside the walls of your own perception are severely limited, and is why you're behaving in the way you are.
What you're apparently not comprehending is that there is room for rationality and belief to coexist. Rationality simply makes sure that beliefs are not placed on shoddy foundations. Those of us who actually treasure our beliefs do enjoy the fact that we have put them to the test of explanation and rationalization. We hold beliefs close because we know that rationalization has been unable to explain those beliefs. We do not, however, refuse the challenge of offering up our beliefs to further rationalization simply because they are our beliefs. We like to know that our beliefs are rooted in a more solid foundation that mere ego.
Why a person would be threatened by rationality in regard to their beliefs does not elude me, does not surprise me, but definitely makes sense. And I guess I can't fault you on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
The old saying is "keep an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out"
I'm one who has experienced several unambiguous paranormal events but even I know 95% of the supposed "paranormal" really isn't paranormal at all... or even unusual. Orbs are the best example of this that I can think of... they just aren't ghosts!
I think that if all the B.S. wasn't around clouding the truth, science would have taken the subject seriously and maybe we could of had some real answers by now.
Agreed.
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