U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-30-2018, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
3,442 posts, read 2,805,503 times
Reputation: 6144

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PappaSmurfD View Post
My sincere opinion on the matter...I feel it is important to note that while science and logic are essential towards defining and understanding the role we play within this universe. As time goes on we seem to be coming to conclusions on various matters that defy both scientific explanation or astute logic. ... This brings me to my final point that cloudbursting/cloudbusting whatever you want to call it, is in fact possible. I know this because I am able to do it with a 100% success rate on cumulus clouds ONLY. I don’t know why it doesn’t work on other types but it doesn’t. ... I hope that one day we are all able to accept and recgocnize that science and logic are essential to fully understand the universe we live in, but spirituality and the ethereal are equally just as important for is to study to get a COMPLETE view of the universe we live in and our place within that universe. ...
See my ancient posts #2, #8, and #11 in this thread. An hypothesis might be: PappaSmurfD can by power of his will cause clouds to disappear at a statistically significant rate that is faster than their normal rate of disappearance (I'll cut you some slack and not hold you to the 100% claim). For a control group, you can videotape clouds that you're not focusing on and calculate their rate of disappearance versus those you do focus on. I will bet there's no statistically significant difference between the clouds you focus on and those you don't focus on.

If you can't devise an experiment to test your hypothesis that you can make clouds disappear, then your belief is a matter of faith. I'd personally rather put my faith in things other than the persistence of clouds, but if that sustains you spiritually, have at it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-05-2018, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,912 posts, read 9,199,049 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
See my ancient posts #2, #8, and #11 in this thread. An hypothesis might be: PappaSmurfD can by power of his will cause clouds to disappear at a statistically significant rate that is faster than their normal rate of disappearance (I'll cut you some slack and not hold you to the 100% claim). For a control group, you can videotape clouds that you're not focusing on and calculate their rate of disappearance versus those you do focus on. I will bet there's no statistically significant difference between the clouds you focus on and those you don't focus on.

If you can't devise an experiment to test your hypothesis that you can make clouds disappear, then your belief is a matter of faith. I'd personally rather put my faith in things other than the persistence of clouds, but if that sustains you spiritually, have at it.
When I was young I did not practice making clouds 'disappear' for money or hits. I was an Aquarius - of course I did not believe in astrology. But it was the time for transcendental meditation, remote viewing, Buddhist/Hindu beliefs and the flying cars of Popular Mechanics and Popular Science. So I read and bumped into somebody talking about making clouds disappear. When I had the time, many times while fishing and waiting for a bite, I tried. To me it seemed as if I did have control over some clouds. I was not obsessed with this or did I want notoriety. I was not sure if it was 'real' - I am still not. Maybe I have a great knack at choosing the right cloud?

As I got older it did not seem important. I always had something else to do besides sitting and staring at the clouds. At one time I had a bathroom that had a window and while working things out; I would practice. Now I don't have a window! the computer screen seems more important than turning around and staring outside. Do I care if anybody else believes - no. I am an atheist and I am not trying to prove the existence of a higher being. It can remain one of the mysteries I take to my grave.

On the other hand I am always interested if others have good strong evidence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-05-2018, 06:31 PM
 
12,207 posts, read 6,224,311 times
Reputation: 6691
Nothing mysterious about making clouds disappear. Insurance companies pay to have it done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2018, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
3,442 posts, read 2,805,503 times
Reputation: 6144
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
... To me it seemed as if I did have control over some clouds. I was not obsessed with this or did I want notoriety. I was not sure if it was 'real' - I am still not. Maybe I have a great knack at choosing the right cloud? ...

On the other hand I am always interested if others have good strong evidence.
The question is (and this is what it always boils down to in this forum): what is the nature of good strong evidence? What would convince someone else that your disappearing clouds is not simply a matter of chance? The answer is: a repeatable experiment that anyone with the right equipment can do. That's where science comes in. The alternative is to take on faith alone that you have this power - which makes it a fun personal belief rather than an unsolved mystery or something paranormal. Here in greater detail is a description of:

What a Scientific Experiment Might Look Like For Those Who Have The Patience

The physics behind the disappearance of scattered "fair weather" cumulus clouds is: a "bubble" of warm air rises until it encounters colder air, at which point the moisture in the warmer air condenses around particles (dust, bacteria, etc) and forms a cloud, which is droplets of water. Without further input of moisture, the "bubble" erodes away and disappears. It's the same exact physics involved as when you breathe out on a damp cold day and see your breath - then it dissipates. The lifetime of these fair weather cumulus clouds is 5-40 minutes; see:

Fair Weather Cumulus Clouds: puffy cotton balls floating in the sky

Here is a time lapse video of cumulus clouds being created by thermals and dissipating:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hCIgsCKoWE

Here is how you might set up a repeatable experiment. As you will see, it's not as easy as you might think to do so. There are two possible claims you could make if you set up an experiment:

When I stare at a cloud, it disappears faster than it would if I didn't stare at it.
When anyone stares at a cloud, it disappears faster than it would if someone didn't stare at it.

To eliminate the second possibility, you can't have someone else staring at a cloud - else you can't determine the difference between clouds you stare at and clouds someone else stares at.

Stare at a sufficient number of clouds to give you a statistically significant sample (there are ways to calculate the size of sample needed). Select them randomly to eliminate any subconscious selection bias (you'll have to devise a way to do this random selection).

Run a video camera during this time pointing elsewhere to record the population of clouds you weren't staring at.

Time each cloud you're staring at to determine how long it takes from first looking at it to its dissipation (you'd need to define this: probably as no visible trace remaining).

Stop the camera when you're done collecting your data.

Now view the video, and randomly select clouds and time them from a defined point of selection (you'll need to use the same random selection approach you used to select your observed population). You'll need the same number of clouds as those you "disappeared". View the video and time each randomly selected cloud from the starting time of selection to its disappearance.

Run a statistical test on the results to determine whether there's a statistically significant difference between the population of clouds you stared at and the population from the video. Document and publish the results so others can attempt to recreate them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-06-2018, 09:39 AM
 
2,022 posts, read 501,452 times
Reputation: 1802
Im surprised Orgone has not been mentioned yet in this thread. Orgone blasters, which are made from copper coils, crystals and resin, are said to have some effect on clouds. I used to do lawn care work for an older guy that had these things all over his property.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2018, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,912 posts, read 9,199,049 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
The question is (and this is what it always boils down to in this forum): what is the nature of good strong evidence? What would convince someone else that your disappearing clouds is not simply a matter of chance? The answer is: a repeatable experiment that anyone with the right equipment can do. That's where science comes in. The alternative is to take on faith alone that you have this power - which makes it a fun personal belief rather than an unsolved mystery or something paranormal. Here in greater detail is a description of:

What a Scientific Experiment Might Look Like For Those Who Have The Patience

The physics behind the disappearance of scattered "fair weather" cumulus clouds is: a "bubble" of warm air rises until it encounters colder air, at which point the moisture in the warmer air condenses around particles (dust, bacteria, etc) and forms a cloud, which is droplets of water. Without further input of moisture, the "bubble" erodes away and disappears. It's the same exact physics involved as when you breathe out on a damp cold day and see your breath - then it dissipates. The lifetime of these fair weather cumulus clouds is 5-40 minutes; see:

Fair Weather Cumulus Clouds: puffy cotton balls floating in the sky

Here is a time lapse video of cumulus clouds being created by thermals and dissipating:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hCIgsCKoWE

Here is how you might set up a repeatable experiment. As you will see, it's not as easy as you might think to do so. There are two possible claims you could make if you set up an experiment:

When I stare at a cloud, it disappears faster than it would if I didn't stare at it.
When anyone stares at a cloud, it disappears faster than it would if someone didn't stare at it.

To eliminate the second possibility, you can't have someone else staring at a cloud - else you can't determine the difference between clouds you stare at and clouds someone else stares at.

Stare at a sufficient number of clouds to give you a statistically significant sample (there are ways to calculate the size of sample needed). Select them randomly to eliminate any subconscious selection bias (you'll have to devise a way to do this random selection).

Run a video camera during this time pointing elsewhere to record the population of clouds you weren't staring at.

Time each cloud you're staring at to determine how long it takes from first looking at it to its dissipation (you'd need to define this: probably as no visible trace remaining).

Stop the camera when you're done collecting your data.

Now view the video, and randomly select clouds and time them from a defined point of selection (you'll need to use the same random selection approach you used to select your observed population). You'll need the same number of clouds as those you "disappeared". View the video and time each randomly selected cloud from the starting time of selection to its disappearance.

Run a statistical test on the results to determine whether there's a statistically significant difference between the population of clouds you stared at and the population from the video. Document and publish the results so others can attempt to recreate them.
I think I would be afraid if I could prove it! Like I have said before: I am a non-believing atheist. I also do not believe in Big foot, Nessie, ghost or just about anything else except what I can feel and study. When I was much younger this was one unexplained mystery. I am not obsessed with finding out one way or another. Maybe, if I ever ditch my TracFone for a smart phone, I'll take you up on your challenge. Actually I have been lost posting pictures on CD ever since Photo Bucket is not free!

I have looked at other videos of people supposedly making clouds disappear and I don't like their 'evidence'. Some of those videos have mountains in the background and that could cause upper air disturbance. I had always tried to challenge myself when I was younger by picking out clouds that had no good explanation of why they vanished. I know that it might not be that simple and there could be hidden reasons for anything.

But that does not mean I am not interested in the subject. It's a holdover from my younger days and I do hope somebody takes you up on the challenge.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
3,442 posts, read 2,805,503 times
Reputation: 6144
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I think I would be afraid if I could prove it! Like I have said before: I am a non-believing atheist. I also do not believe in Big foot, Nessie, ghost or just about anything else except what I can feel and study. When I was much younger this was one unexplained mystery. I am not obsessed with finding out one way or another. Maybe, if I ever ditch my TracFone for a smart phone, I'll take you up on your challenge. Actually I have been lost posting pictures on CD ever since Photo Bucket is not free!

I have looked at other videos of people supposedly making clouds disappear and I don't like their 'evidence'. Some of those videos have mountains in the background and that could cause upper air disturbance. I had always tried to challenge myself when I was younger by picking out clouds that had no good explanation of why they vanished. I know that it might not be that simple and there could be hidden reasons for anything.

But that does not mean I am not interested in the subject. It's a holdover from my younger days and I do hope somebody takes you up on the challenge.
Suppose it were true and some people do have that ability - that doesn't mean necessarily there's anything otherworldly or "scary" about it. It would mean there's something we don't understand about our interaction with the natural world. That was the motivation behind the growth of interest in parapsychological experimentation way back when (I was interested in doing parapsychological research at the Duke Institute back in the early 1970s but didn't follow up on it).

In fact, you get bubbles of air rising over flat surfaces, too - they're caused by uneven heating of the earth's surface. For example, if you have a large blacktopped parking lot it's likely to cause thermals - and there are heat island effects associated with cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-07-2018, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,912 posts, read 9,199,049 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Suppose it were true and some people do have that ability - that doesn't mean necessarily there's anything otherworldly or "scary" about it. It would mean there's something we don't understand about our interaction with the natural world. That was the motivation behind the growth of interest in parapsychological experimentation way back when (I was interested in doing parapsychological research at the Duke Institute back in the early 1970s but didn't follow up on it).

In fact, you get bubbles of air rising over flat surfaces, too - they're caused by uneven heating of the earth's surface. For example, if you have a large blacktopped parking lot it's likely to cause thermals - and there are heat island effects associated with cities.
I had one observation I made immediately after 9/11. I also wished that there was more evidence of my observation. It was the only time in recent history that we had no airplanes in our skies. I was a long distance sleeper team driver at that time. I also wore polarized sunglasses because of the little mishap I had fishing (if you click on my name and hit on public profile you will see the problem I had). With my polarized sunglasses the sky looked different. It looked as if you could see small wispy clouds rising. I even gave my sunglasses to my partner to confirm my observations. This was not happening just in one place; we were covering thousands of miles. I have tried to research it in the past as to whether or not there were temperature of humidity anomalies but did not see any drastic changes in the numbers; which I expected to see. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place - I don't know. Perhaps Al Gore, while flying all over the world to environmental summits; was changing the weather more than he knew?

I do think it is good for humans to have a few mysteries. I don't suppose that anybody wants to declare another 'no fly zone' over the US to check out my observations?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:43 AM
 
2,022 posts, read 501,452 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I had one observation I made immediately after 9/11. I also wished that there was more evidence of my observation. It was the only time in recent history that we had no airplanes in our skies. I was a long distance sleeper team driver at that time. I also wore polarized sunglasses because of the little mishap I had fishing (if you click on my name and hit on public profile you will see the problem I had). With my polarized sunglasses the sky looked different. It looked as if you could see small wispy clouds rising. I even gave my sunglasses to my partner to confirm my observations. This was not happening just in one place; we were covering thousands of miles. I have tried to research it in the past as to whether or not there were temperature of humidity anomalies but did not see any drastic changes in the numbers; which I expected to see. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place - I don't know. Perhaps Al Gore, while flying all over the world to environmental summits; was changing the weather more than he knew?

I do think it is good for humans to have a few mysteries. I don't suppose that anybody wants to declare another 'no fly zone' over the US to check out my observations?
If you really want to see some strange things in the sky, trying viewing the night and day sky thru infrared!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,912 posts, read 9,199,049 times
Reputation: 7168
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If you really want to see some strange things in the sky, trying viewing the night and day sky thru infrared!
I have to wonder what the skies would have looked like during the "No Fly Zone"? Hopefully we will never get another chance to see! Although it would be interesting if anybody took any pictures during the no fly time with an infrared filter?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top