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Old 05-04-2014, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
7,039 posts, read 3,520,224 times
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Is this case for real? I heard about it on the news or something about when it allegedly happened.

She heard what was being said and saw what was happening even though her brain stem had been flat-lined and he brain cooled to some pretty cold temperature (which resulted in the flat-line) then having the blood drained from her brain. The flat-line was determined by small speakers in the ear plugs fitted so she was no longer responding to sound and she had metal caps covering her eyes. For the full story here's the link; neardth.com/pam-reynolds-near-death-experience.php‎ She could not possibly have heard anything going on in the operating room, nor could she have seen a reflection on the overhead lamp. She was having her skull cut open so her face would have been covered. Plus she would have been lying face down? But is the story true?

It would be nice if someone could verify the story! Do the doctors and surgeons mentioned actually exist and so on.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:12 AM
 
Location: USA, California
3 posts, read 4,011 times
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I must say this is a bull****......How this can be happen....I don't believe on it....I also heard this story from another person. I don't think its true
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:03 PM
 
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Of course it is true. The reporting physician was Dr. Michael Sabom, one of the pioneers of NDE research. It is one of the most famous, most well-documented NDE cases of all time. It is not without the inevitable skeptical challengers, but it has withstood scrutiny quite well. Pam Reynolds died not long ago. Good Lord, folks, if you have any genuine interest in the NDE phenomenon, it would take about 5 minutes on the Internet to verify this case and all of its particulars. Dr. Sabom is hardly a shadowy figure -- he's extremely well-known.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:43 PM
 
2,538 posts, read 4,265,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Venerable Bede View Post
Of course it is true. The reporting physician was Dr. Michael Sabom, one of the pioneers of NDE research. It is one of the most famous, most well-documented NDE cases of all time. It is not without the inevitable skeptical challengers, but it has withstood scrutiny quite well. Pam Reynolds died not long ago. Good Lord, folks, if you have any genuine interest in the NDE phenomenon, it would take about 5 minutes on the Internet to verify this case and all of its particulars. Dr. Sabom is hardly a shadowy figure -- he's extremely well-known.
I have a question for all of those who believe in NDEs, OBEs, and all of the other alphabet soup nonsense. If thinks like sight, hearing, and all other senses are available to your "spirit" then what is the biological point of having eyes, ears, and sense of smell and touch? If we have all of these abilities outside of our bodies then why do we need these biological aides while in it? Shouldn't a blind person be able to see? Should a def person be able to hear? I've often asked this same thing to people that believe in the eternal soul. If we die and suddely remember everything then how does one explain Alzheimer and other neurological conditions that damage or destroy peoples memories and thoughts?
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Assuming the mind does continue to live after the death of our bodies then it would seem reasonable to me that the senses would continue to function and those senses that did not work would then seem to work. The mystery is not whether those senses should exist but whether the mind can exist without the body or brain. The Pam Reynonds case is interesting to me because she reported things that were said during her procedure. She said that when they discovered her arteries were too small to do what they had planned they commented on the small arteries and did something else. She would surely not have been briefed on the makeshift alternative? Not without the surgeons remembering briefing her, surely?

I should point out that to me it is not a question of believing in OBE's or NDE's - that is a religious issue. I'm only interested in the facts. I don't dispute the fact of NDE's and OBE's but I do wonder what they really are. The Pam Reynonds case would suggest that they really are out of body events. And that is why I asked whether her case is for real. It seems that she really did exist and that she really did have a procedure in which she had an OBE. But did she actually leave her physical body? The accounts I have read sound convincing but only if those accounts can be verified.

Something I've been reading about lately - the debunking of OBE's. How would anyone be able to debunk an OBE? Can anyone debunk a dream I had or say I've had?
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:50 PM
 
174 posts, read 274,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Jones View Post
I have a question for all of those who believe in NDEs, OBEs, and all of the other alphabet soup nonsense. If thinks like sight, hearing, and all other senses are available to your "spirit" then what is the biological point of having eyes, ears, and sense of smell and touch? If we have all of these abilities outside of our bodies then why do we need these biological aides while in it? Shouldn't a blind person be able to see? Should a def person be able to hear? I've often asked this same thing to people that believe in the eternal soul. If we die and suddely remember everything then how does one explain Alzheimer and other neurological conditions that damage or destroy peoples memories and thoughts?
To characterize NDEs as "alphabet soup nonsense" tells me that you have not read widely in the field, because no one involved in the field or knowledgeable about it characterizes NDEs as nonsense. There have been serious studies of NDEs in the blind - see Mindsight by Kenneth Ring, for example -- and they tend to confirm visual NDEs even in those who have been blind from birth. One possible explanation is that, just as the brain is believed by many to be a biological filter for consciousness, the sense organs may be biological filters for the senses. If we all saw the full spectrum of light, or with the acuity of an electron microscope, the world would appear as utterly chaotic and we would be unable to function. The fact that vision is reported as greatly enhanced during an NDE would tend to support this. The same explanation would apply to your Alzheimer's example -- if the biological mechanism (brain) by which the mind is able to function in the material world is impaired, the functioning of the mind in the material world will likewise be impaired; but when the impairment is removed, as by the death of the brain, the mind functions unimpaired. These are not established truths by any means, but they are certainly possibilities that are supported by some of the evidence and are recognized by many who have been involved in NDE research or have read widely in the field. But if you are predisposed to characterize NDEs as "alphabet soup nonsense," I would suppose that you would dismiss these possibilities as nonsense as well.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,255,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet Jones View Post
I have a question for all of those who believe in NDEs, OBEs, and all of the other alphabet soup nonsense. If thinks like sight, hearing, and all other senses are available to your "spirit" then what is the biological point of having eyes, ears, and sense of smell and touch? If we have all of these abilities outside of our bodies then why do we need these biological aides while in it? Shouldn't a blind person be able to see? Should a def person be able to hear? I've often asked this same thing to people that believe in the eternal soul. If we die and suddely remember everything then how does one explain Alzheimer and other neurological conditions that damage or destroy peoples memories and thoughts?
Our spirit entity is not the same as our physical one.

The physical body is what it is due to evolution throughout billions of years.

The soul, spirit, conscious energy that is within all creatures and plants leaves the physical body when they die.

Just keep in mind the Law of Conservation of Energy.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:38 AM
 
Location: NW AR
2,438 posts, read 2,380,783 times
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Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post

Something I've been reading about lately - the debunking of OBE's. How would anyone be able to debunk an OBE? Can anyone debunk a dream I had or say I've had?
Anyone can debunk something that only you can understand. It's specially designed for your intellect. I've known a couple of people that had OBE's. I've never had one but I receive warnings ( or what I call warnings) I am pretty use to them and they don't happen all the time. Sometimes its about me but not not all the time.. When my father died.. before he was dead my grandmother ( or his mother came through) and let me know that what was about to happen was important. She wanted me to take care of her baby and I did. She did use a dream that scared me to death, but it had to be scary to get my attention. I personally woke up after the dream and my right arm was numb, or asleep. My dad had two strokes on his right side within an hour later. I buried him in five days.. so yeah.. I took care of it. She was really persistent.. but then again she had to be. She was letting me know this was urgent.

Can you personally debunk the experience I had? Of course you can.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
7,039 posts, read 3,520,224 times
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Well that's another question I wonder about, what happens to the life energy when an organism dies. What about the individual life energies of each cell - they die at a different rate to the organism on the whole. Puzzling!

There seem to be many debunkers of the Pam Reynolds case but none of those could possibly 'disprove' her account. As for myself, at least now I know the people involved are real. I suppose there are a number of hoaxers involved in this NDE and OBE phenomena which can only cloud the issue.

I had an experience shortly after my sons death which I found curious but not unexplainable in ordinary terms but which would also fit a continued existence of the mind explanation. I have to accept the more earthly explanation in the face of lack of proof of the paranormal. Life after death or out of body conciousness is either a fact or it isn't. Right now I don't have the means to determine which and I thought the Pam Reynolds case would be the one to provide evidence.
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Old 05-07-2014, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
7,039 posts, read 3,520,224 times
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Thanks thegreenflute334. That is most interesting.
Quote:
Can you personally debunk the experience I had? Of course you can.
Ummm ... No I can't. I could say all kinds of clever things that would make it sound like you didn't actually have that dream but that would be bigger BS than the experience I'd be trying to debunk. People can say they don't believe it but that's all.
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