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Old 06-07-2014, 09:50 PM
 
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I live in earthquake country. If you are next to the epicenter, your building will fall, too.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
I'm from Pittsburgh PA with lots of family there. I was in a panic because Flight 93 was reported to have crashed in Pittsburgh. Then outside of Pittsburgh. Then in Somerset County (more relatives). By the time they announced Shanksville, they also knew it hit in a large field so no one on the ground was lost -- I was pretty wrung out with phone calls flying back and forth.

Then a few people I knew had people they lost.

I'm not sure about the Pentagon thing, because it's the Pentagon and heck yeah -- there's going to be lots of secrecy there, but I don't see anything here that points to a conspiracy. The reason the World Trade Center went down is those planes were loaded with jet fuel for long flights ahead. The fuel ran down the interior of the building, burning all the way. Jet fuel burn temp is like 2000 degrees and that melted the interior structures of the building, which created that controlled collapse look.

I don't think the taking down of the Towers was in the intended effect of the terrorists, it was a fortunate for them unintended mistake.

And yeah -- my husband thinks it was a conspiracy, too.
How do you explain the crater at the Shanksville crash site that was there prior to 9/11?
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:58 PM
 
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Talk about government coverups, go research how the US Navy shot down that passenger jet off Long Island.
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:41 PM
 
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Conspiracy theories are a lot of fun, but the fewer people involved the better chance it has to succeed. 9/11 would have been to elaborate to pull off successfully by the government.
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Slaughter Creek, Travis County
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The attack was neither unexplained or paranormal. It was an act of terrorism.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:01 AM
 
12,907 posts, read 11,805,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post

I don't think the taking down of the Towers was in the intended effect of the terrorists, it was a fortunate for them unintended mistake.
It was absolutely intended. In 93 the plan was to knock tower 1 into tower 2 by bombing the basement level of the building, hoping they'd both fall. That failed, and they came back in 01 to finish the job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
For what it's worth--and in my experience, I know it's not worth anything to people who desperately, passionately, want the WTC collapse to have been a controlled demolition, but since I "know" some of you on here from being on this forum all these years I will offer it--I worked for 20 years with the engineers at the World Trade Center, including with people who were there for the original construction, and as most of you are aware, I was in One WTC on September 11, 2001 and returned to work several weeks later to get contracts out that effectuated the cleanup and eventually, the rebuilding.

Contrary to the popular belief of those who desperately, passionately, want the WTC collapse to have been a controlled demolition, the cleanup and investigation at Fresh Kills and with NIST did not take place in some sort of bizarro situation whereby the US Government swooped down on lower Manhattan, cordoned off everything to everyone but themselves, and then conducted a fraudulent investigation in a vacuum with no other parties involved. The federal presence was there, but a minority. The NIST report was reviewed in draft form by independent engineers both within and outside the US before it was published in final form. Thousands of non-governmental engineers and contractors worked at the site and at Fresh Kills to recover and analyze the debris. There has never been any evidence found of explosives used, and the structural and civil engineering community overall agrees on the collapse sequence and causes presented in the NIST report.

There's also the part, extremely bizarre to me perhaps because of the twenty years I spent in the buildings overseeing office space, asbestos-removal and other construction contracts, where people think that in a known terrorist target building that had been attacked once before, and where you couldn't get a friggin' PIZZA delivered to your floor because of the security rules, that a group bearing the equipment and materials needed to wire a 110-story building for demolition could just merrily prance on in and start their dastardly work without anyone noticing, asking questions, or being seen on the huge CCTV system that was monitored by about a dozen people 24/7 in the Security Control Center. Hell, I once sent a guy to one of our floors to repair a stand-alone AC unit and I got a call from the front-desk receptionist to verify that he was supposed to be on her floor and allowed access to the closet where the unit was.

I could go on, if you've got all day. I've got a coworker who died in the Cornell Burn Unit in late October because she was caught in the fireball that shot down the elevator shafts and through the lobby, where she was walking, yet so many will claim that there was no jet fuel fire. I can tell you that the building slammed to the side so hard at impact that people fell on the floor and it felt as if it was going over and that you could feel the building leaning when you were in the staircase and you could hear the sound of the steel and knew it didn't sound like it was supposed to, and if you don't know what I mean by that then you don't know anything about the World Trade Center.

And I can tell you that watching it on a video tells you nothing at all--it looks like a cartoon to me when I see 9/11 videos compared to the hell that it really looked like that day up close and personal and not shot from a TV camera located at the safety of a half-mile away. But people are going to believe what they desperately, passionately want to believe for whatever their reasons.

I have no knowledge of what persons in our government knew or didn't know in advance or let happen or didn't let happen. I would not be shocked to learn that was the case. I'm pretty sure that a bunch of people sitting in out in the cornfield states haven't accurately figured it all out by watching videos on their computers, either. Some of them don't even seem to have bothered to educate themselves as to the basic details of the events of the day, yet they declare themselves experts on the "conspiracy". And they don't want to learn, which is just sad because there are so many stories of sadness and triumph in the reality of what happened that day, and they get lost in the cacophony of the nonsense sometimes.

I do know that certain factions of our government at least certainly took advantage of the events of the day to work things in their favor whether it was as devastating as to garner support for invading countries or as everyday-political as to try and get their hands into the rebuilding to boost their own public image, and to me, that's horror in and of itself, but it's also to be expected. This is what power and greed does.
Beautiful post, Mightyqueen. Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John7777 View Post
Take a look sometime, at the World Trade Center building seven. 48 story building that collapsed at freefall speed and wasn't hit by anything.
Building 7 collapsed because of severe damage sustained when two massive buildings above it collapsed. It wasn't the only nearby building to sustain severe damage, another example is the Deutsche Bank Building on Liberty Street adjacent to the twin towers, which was later torn down. All 7 WTC buildings were destroyed on 9/11, either directly or from damage afterwards. Building 7 was in danger of collapsing all day, and there was at least one false alarm before it finally fell. The cleanup site was evacuated at least once, in fear of the collapse, prior to its actual collapse. I got this from the memoir of the Port Authority cop in charge of the nighttime shift during the 9 month rescue and recovery effort. I forget his name but he mentioned this in the book. The building was in danger of collapsing, and there were false alarms that required evacuations of the area. It was severely damaged, they could barely go inside it.

Edit: The book is Closure by Lt. William Keegan.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 06-08-2014 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:15 AM
 
3,513 posts, read 3,268,661 times
Reputation: 7935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
For what it's worth--and in my experience, I know it's not worth anything to people who desperately, passionately, want the WTC collapse to have been a controlled demolition, but since I "know" some of you on here from being on this forum all these years I will offer it--I worked for 20 years with the engineers at the World Trade Center, including with people who were there for the original construction, and as most of you are aware, I was in One WTC on September 11, 2001 and returned to work several weeks later to get contracts out that effectuated the cleanup and eventually, the rebuilding.

Contrary to the popular belief of those who desperately, passionately, want the WTC collapse to have been a controlled demolition, the cleanup and investigation at Fresh Kills and with NIST did not take place in some sort of bizarro situation whereby the US Government swooped down on lower Manhattan, cordoned off everything to everyone but themselves, and then conducted a fraudulent investigation in a vacuum with no other parties involved. The federal presence was there, but a minority. The NIST report was reviewed in draft form by independent engineers both within and outside the US before it was published in final form. Thousands of non-governmental engineers and contractors worked at the site and at Fresh Kills to recover and analyze the debris. There has never been any evidence found of explosives used, and the structural and civil engineering community overall agrees on the collapse sequence and causes presented in the NIST report.

There's also the part, extremely bizarre to me perhaps because of the twenty years I spent in the buildings overseeing office space, asbestos-removal and other construction contracts, where people think that in a known terrorist target building that had been attacked once before, and where you couldn't get a friggin' PIZZA delivered to your floor because of the security rules, that a group bearing the equipment and materials needed to wire a 110-story building for demolition could just merrily prance on in and start their dastardly work without anyone noticing, asking questions, or being seen on the huge CCTV system that was monitored by about a dozen people 24/7 in the Security Control Center. Hell, I once sent a guy to one of our floors to repair a stand-alone AC unit and I got a call from the front-desk receptionist to verify that he was supposed to be on her floor and allowed access to the closet where the unit was.

I could go on, if you've got all day. I've got a coworker who died in the Cornell Burn Unit in late October because she was caught in the fireball that shot down the elevator shafts and through the lobby, where she was walking, yet so many will claim that there was no jet fuel fire. I can tell you that the building slammed to the side so hard at impact that people fell on the floor and it felt as if it was going over and that you could feel the building leaning when you were in the staircase and you could hear the sound of the steel and knew it didn't sound like it was supposed to, and if you don't know what I mean by that then you don't know anything about the World Trade Center.
Did you ever get questioned as part of the investigation?
Were you privy to any of the Ace Elevator Co. elevator retrofit / upgrade projects that occurred in the months leading up to the event?
Would the CCTVs be recording Ace Elevator Service crew at all hours as they entered the complex? What was unloaded from service vans?

Were the personnel of Ace Elevator co ever fully investigated?
ACE Elevator

9/11: The WTC Elevator Key - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obri8HFGBl8


I've always wondered why there was not more focus on those who had direct access to the service core of the towers for such a prolonged period of time prior to what is still a first in construction history- total symmetrical collapse at free fall speed from an asymmetrical hit to a structure.

I think some of these projects

Demolition Fail Compilation, best demolition failures - YouTube
could have been better done with those wearing some of those Ace Elevator uniforms leading up to 9/11

Yet, let's not forget the Joint Chief of Staffs, Operation Northwoods from early 1960s to guide the cover story.
Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by ciceropolo; 06-08-2014 at 12:30 AM.. Reason: content
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:31 AM
 
12,907 posts, read 11,805,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciceropolo View Post
Did you ever get questioned as part of the investigation?
Were you privy to any of the Ace Elevator Co. elevator retrofit / upgrade projects that occurred in the months leading up to the event?
Would the CCTVs be recording Ace Elevator Service crew at all hours as they entered the complex? What was unloaded from service vans?

Were the personnel of Ace Elevator co ever fully investigated?
ACE Elevator

9/11: The WTC Elevator Key - YouTube


I've always wondered why there was not more focus on those who had direct access to the service core of the towers for such a prolonged period of time prior to what is still a first in construction history- total symmetrical collapse at free fall speed from an asymmetrical hit to a structure.

I think some of these projects

Demolition Fail Compilation, best demolition failures - YouTube
could have been better done with those wearing some of those Ace Elevator uniforms leading up to 9/11

Yet, let's not forget the Joint Chief of Staffs, Operation Northwoods from early 1960s to remember.
Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Were other buildings in history ever intentionally hit by airplanes packed with jet fuel ready for a cross country flight? If so, did those buildings also have burning jet fuel that shot down the elevator shafts, sucking up oxygen, all the way to their lobbies, where flames burst out once the doors opened and burned people all the way on the ground levels? Did those buildings also burn for at least an hour, at high temps at impact zones 80-110 stories in the air no firemen could reach with water to try to douse the flames even a bit, while weakening the interior steel structures? Did those weakening structures also start to give, bending from heat until they broke, when the floors fell on top of one another as each weakened interior column and support finally gave in?

9/11 was unprecedented in pretty much every aspect. There has to be a first for everything, doesn't there?

If you watch the South Tower fall (the one that fell first), you'll see its very top tip to one side before it falls vertically. It's almost as if the tipping top crashes straight through every other floor.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:27 AM
 
13,720 posts, read 22,354,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
How do you explain the crater at the Shanksville crash site that was there prior to 9/11?
I didn't know there was one, but there are old mines all throughout the area and also lots of mine subsidence. Shanksville is an area that I am not familiar with, which is sort of amazing considering all the family I have scattered all over that area nearby.... but none in Shanksville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
It was absolutely intended. In 93 the plan was to knock tower 1 into tower 2 by bombing the basement level of the building, hoping they'd both fall. That failed, and they came back in 01 to finish the job.
I knew about the previous bombing, but never knew that taking down the towers was intended. Since we weren't near New York, this incident was not as intensely scrutinized as it would have been had we been there. My memory of the 93 bomb blast was the bomb was a small device, not nearly as large as it should have been to cause both towers to fall.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:53 AM
 
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Reputation: 18320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
I knew about the previous bombing, but never knew that taking down the towers was intended. Since we weren't near New York, this incident was not as intensely scrutinized as it would have been had we been there. My memory of the 93 bomb blast was the bomb was a small device, not nearly as large as it should have been to cause both towers to fall.
Oh yeah, that was the plan. They really thought it would work. They went in from the bottom of the building because they thought it would shake the foundation enough to actually cause 1 WTC to fall into 2 WTC. Obviously that did not happen and the blast was not very large comparatively speaking (to 9/11), though still tragic and damaging.

Interesting fact that you or may not have known, Ramzi Yousef is the man who planned and carried out the 1993 bombing, along with an accomplice who stupidly got himself caught when he demanded back the money for the missing Ryder truck from Jersey City he rented… (the one used in the bombing). Yousef fled the country and wound up planning more attacks and assassinations while in the Philippines with his uncle, Khalid Sheikh Mohamed (KSM). He and KSM planned the Bojinka plot, which involved simultaneously blowing up 11 US bound planes over the Pacific - planting the idea of using planes as weapons. Yousef was finally caught in the Philippines, actually while showing other terrorists how to make bombs when his apartment caught fire and his computer with terroristic plans was seized, but KSM escaped this time. KSM went on to mastermind the 9/11 attacks, branching off the plane idea he and his nephew Yousef, the mastermind of the 93 bombing, planned together, literally finishing Yousef's goal from 1993. Amazing (not in a good way, but an amazing, and maybe not so surprising, connection).

Did they think both towers would fall on 9/11? I'm not sure about that - maybe, maybe not. Maybe they hoped they would, maybe they were only going for damage and the shock factor. But I do know that the 93 bombing was intended to knock down the buildings, by knocking 1 into 2 so they'd both fall like dominos.
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