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Old 12-07-2017, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,131,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
So then the known unknowns? Sounds familiar.

"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know." - Donald Rumsfeld, Feb 12, 2002
This argument is a couple of thousand years older than Donald Rumsfeld. Its called logic.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:09 PM
 
4,981 posts, read 7,760,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
This argument is a couple of thousand years older than Donald Rumsfeld. Its called logic.
If you feel you're correct, then you shouldn't have any problem giving a number to the "inordinately large number of people" who have reportedly disappeared in the Rockies every year. How many people? And provide some reliable links and references. Or do you mean in all US wilderness areas each year? Why should anyone assume you're correct just because you say so? For all I know, you could be mistaken.

How does what you previously said have anything to do with logic? You haven't provided any stats or facts. And what part of the world was the Rumsfeld comment argued over 2000 years ago? (Apparently you didn't understand the humor) I had no idea he was that old.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:50 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,705 posts, read 2,982,950 times
Reputation: 2457
David Paulides (Missing 411 books) often says in interviews that the figures are not available from the various parks departments across the country. I am not sure what figures he gives but he has researched and written these books based on the idea that there are quite a few strange disappearances in these National Park areas. I believe he was a police officer or investigator so he probably would have found out if the figures were out there.

Found this today so they are probably creating a Lizard Cocktail

Last edited by ocpaul20; 12-07-2017 at 11:52 PM.. Reason: lizard cocktail
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,131,783 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
David Paulides (Missing 411 books) often says in interviews that the figures are not available from the various parks departments across the country. I am not sure what figures he gives but he has researched and written these books based on the idea that there are quite a few strange disappearances in these National Park areas. I believe he was a police officer or investigator so he probably would have found out if the figures were out there.

Found this today so they are probably creating a Lizard Cocktail
Thanks for the information: sorry that I can't yet rep you. The book that you mentioned is available for about a hundred dollars. Obviously, someone or some agency is suppressing additional printings. I'm loath to spend that much for it.

I did run across two other books on Amazon that could supply some connection. If not,they still look interesting. I just ordered samples of both for Kindle so we shall see. If one or both look good, I'll order physical copies.

https://smile.amazon.com/Missing-411...ds=missing+411

https://smile.amazon.com/Something-W...ds=missing+411

https://smile.amazon.com/Hunt-Skinwa...ds=missing+411
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:23 AM
 
6,153 posts, read 1,497,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
David Paulides (Missing 411 books) often says in interviews that the figures are not available from the various parks departments across the country. I am not sure what figures he gives but he has researched and written these books based on the idea that there are quite a few strange disappearances in these National Park areas. I believe he was a police officer or investigator so he probably would have found out if the figures were out there.

Found this today so they are probably creating a Lizard Cocktail
I watched the Missing 411 documentary awhile back, I was amazed at how many people go missing like this, but its really the perfect place to abduct people, not many witnesses or surv cameras around.

Southern CA is also said to have some kind of underwater UFO base or joint military base just off the coast, I think alot of this stuff is related.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:50 PM
 
11,427 posts, read 19,438,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Thanks for the information: sorry that I can't yet rep you. The book that you mentioned is available for about a hundred dollars. Obviously, someone or some agency is suppressing additional printings. I'm loath to spend that much for it.

I did run across two other books on Amazon that could supply some connection. If not,they still look interesting. I just ordered samples of both for Kindle so we shall see. If one or both look good, I'll order physical copies.

https://smile.amazon.com/Missing-411...ds=missing+411

https://smile.amazon.com/Something-W...ds=missing+411

https://smile.amazon.com/Hunt-Skinwa...ds=missing+411
Check if your local library has an inter library loan system. It might cost you some postage, but somewhere someone just might have that book on their shelves. Much cheaper than trying to find it online, and then realizing itís a bad book.

Then you can make an informed decision if it should be in your collection.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,131,783 times
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Thanks. I hadn't thought of that. It's been a while since I've done that; I've just been buying everything.

While I'm posting, I must mention that one of the samples I mentioned seems unworthy. It claims much information, but it also states that it can't name sources. The other one wasn't delivered.

Here's the bad one.

https://smile.amazon.com/Hunt-Skinwa...ds=missing+411
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,184 posts, read 10,131,783 times
Reputation: 18268
I received the other Kindle sample, more of the same: unsubstantiated claims. The only authority cited is a supposed UFO research group. I'm dropping my inquiry until I encounter hard information on the subject.
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:13 AM
 
4,981 posts, read 7,760,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
I received the other Kindle sample, more of the same: unsubstantiated claims. The only authority cited is a supposed UFO research group. I'm dropping my inquiry until I encounter hard information on the subject.
Agreed. Online, there's not much in the way of hard stats that I've seen. The vast majority tend to be paranormal, UFO, or cryptozoology groups. None seem to be authoritative. Others are probably well meant, but tend to be opinions or blogs, with little to nothing in the way of support or links, and cite info from newspaper or magazine reports, and obscure books. That's similar to Mothman sighting claims. Of some claims, figures up to around 1600 missing persons have been mentioned, but none specifically pointing to large numbers in the Rockies. Most common locations mentioned the Grand Canyon, but most tend to describe wilderness areas nationwide. Interestingly, the figures of over 1000 seem to suggest missing persons over the span of nearly a century, as opposed to annual disappearances. None connected with lizard people or dog face creatures.
https://www.outsideonline.com/2164446/leave-no-trace

There's another similar (older) thread here on C-D that discusses missing persons nationwide, but most of those people tend to have been located and include disappearances from cities, not just wilderness areas.
Missing people per year statistic (it's shocking, just for the US)

There could be any number of different reasons for such disappearances in wilderness areas, including individuals who have been abducted, attacks by wild animals, people unskilled and unprepared for wilderness trekking, accidents, weather conditions, runaways, etc. Those aren't as sensational as purported unknown creatures though.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:48 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,705 posts, read 2,982,950 times
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Quote:
There could be any number of different reasons for such disappearances in wilderness areas, including individuals who have been abducted, attacks by wild animals, people unskilled and unprepared for wilderness trekking, accidents, weather conditions, runaways, etc. Those aren't as sensational as purported unknown creatures though.
There WILL be any number of different reasons for disappearances, BUT if there are ANY which are due to dogman or any other cryptid, then that phenomena needs to be investigated propoerly. It is the total dismissal which does not make sense and I feel is a shutdown of the topic.

There are a number of people on this forum who do not appear to take witness reports seriously. I suggest that if our legal systems takes witness reports seriously, then we should take it seriously too. Sometimes people will be mistaken, sometimes people will make things up, but probably the majority will be describing what they thought they have experienced. It is not respectful to approach all these kind of witnesses from a place of disbelief which is what some of us are doing. These witnesses are just as likely to be our family and friends, you and I both know we place more weight on reports from people we know and respect, but just because we do not know other witnesses does not mean they are always telling lies for their own selfish reasons.

Writing a book about something is a lot of effort and hard work. It often requires many hours of investigation and is not something trivial. Obscure books are only obscure because they may be not well known or not many have been published or they may be rare.

It does NOT mean there is anything wrong with the contents of these books.
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