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This is trotted out every time anyone says the government is keeping secrets from us.
Well what proof do you have that there is intelligent alien life visiting earth. What. Proof. Do. YOU. Have.
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Of course they are keeping secrets. The nuclear bomb was made by thousands of people in many different factories and still amazingly, it managed to be kept secret. Compartmentalization it seems keeps the secrets.
These are not equivalent but to show that you are being dishonest I will point to the Rosenbergs and the fact that the Soviets got the bomb. So what else ya' got?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
The FOIA requests have revealed the goverment does not want the knowledge of aliens to be commonly known. NASA regularly cut the feed to the ISS whenever anything interesting happens out in space. Whistleblowers have told us that UFOs quite often mess with electrics of the weapons silos.
PROOF? I have seen ONE document and it was not authored by the Government. It was a contacting firm that was doing think tank work. It is not proof. When you build you foundation on lies do not be surprised when the whole thing topples.
If I recall, a couple of decades ago the federal government hired the Rand Corporation to find out if, indeed, humans could handle the existence of aliens.
They concluded that humans could not, and that's the way it has stayed.
Of course, the obvious question is: why did the government even want to know?
That was one suggestion and it was a private company. Do you have any proof that intelligent alien life is visiting the Earth or that this was ever taken into action? NASA is looking for life.
I don't quite understand your first sentence. What was a suggestion?
Do I have proof? No, unless the couple of odd things I've seen in the sky over the years could be considered proof.
In any case, I just thought it was curious that the feds would even ask the question. Usually, there is a reason for asking a question.
I don't quite understand your first sentence. What was a suggestion?
You are referencing a document you have not even read?
Basically it was an internal Rand document. The author examined the UFO phenomenon and suggested the need for more standardized reporting to obtain more objective data, not that there were aliens.
Clearly unidentified aircraft over the United States would be a concern to the US Airforce. Using this internal document which I feel was created by a single author and is almost 40 years old shows a lack of evidence. It does not support any theories for the average person.
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Originally Posted by Fox Terrier
Do I have proof? No, unless the couple of odd things I've seen in the sky over the years could be considered proof.
In any case, I just thought it was curious that the feds would even ask the question. Usually, there is a reason for asking a question.
Odd things are just odd things, it does not mean it is aliens or spaceships.
The Government researches a lot of things. There were a lot of reports and someone wanted to know. Obviously there has been nothing found.
A Government Agency also published a report on Zombie Preparedness. That does not mean they believe zombies are real.
This is a claim I often see and have yet to see any evidence backing it up.
Not only do the Agencies have a lot to gain by finding extraterrestrial life they are made up of thousands of people who would blow the whistle even if the Agencies themselves did not wish to for some weird reason.
They have a lot if power, more then can be imagined. They would go to insane lengths to supress the hope and truth. Debunk any way possible.
You wake up this morning to a normal world with the same routine, and same news stories of Government ineptness, violence, doom for the environment and the like. Tomorrow you wake up to front page news, along with anyone else of proof or first contact. Everything changes, several billion people call out sick to work and no one has an idea how to wrap thier head around a changed societys new views and truth.
The world will not tear itself apart, but would stop and change for sure. No one would ever wake up feeling the same about this world.
This is a claim I often see and have yet to see any evidence backing it up.
Not only do the Agencies have a lot to gain by finding extraterrestrial life they are made up of thousands of people who would blow the whistle even if the Agencies themselves did not wish to for some weird reason.
This. And there is the money factor. Finding evidence of aliens in the universe would bring in more money for NASA. They have spent decades sending probes to Mars and other places in the hope of finding life elsewhere. If they find anything, they will tell for their own benefit.
Also, the US does not have control of the sky. Anything a US agency like NASA can detect, countries with telescopes and satellites can detect too. China, Russia, India, the UK, France, etc. can see pretty much what NASA can see. The US has no control over what other countries do with information. Even with the US can somehow manage to keep secrets about aliens, like the gullible UFO nutjobs believe, it's unlikely that the rest of the world would or can do the same.
A Government Agency also published a report on Zombie Preparedness. That does not mean they believe zombies are real.
I ask myself why are they wasting money like that when they (perhaps) do not even believe it is possible?
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Originally Posted by davidt1
This. And there is the money factor. Finding evidence of aliens in the universe would bring in more money for NASA. They have spent decades sending probes to Mars and other places in the hope of finding life elsewhere. If they find anything, they will tell for their own benefit.
...
The US has no control over what other countries do with information.
I consider myself a "gullible UFO nutjob". You see, the thing is, I believe it is others who are gullible because there is enough information out there to draw the 'aliens-are-here' conclusions, yet the others dont want to see it that way. Numerous whistle blowers have come forward to tell their story, yet the others do not believe that either. They believe these are all 'stories' which are made up by more nutjobs.
The UK hacker Gary McKinnon tells us what he found. It was a list of off-world officers names. This suggests there is a space program which is unacknowledged. Corey Goode has come forward to say he was a member of this secret space program. He says there are bases on the Moon which are used by both ETs and by Earth military. He says there are different races of ETs working with different countries with different agendas.
OK, this all could be rubbish, however, the more bits and pieces of information which fit together makes it less likely to be rubbish in my "gullible UFO nutjob" opinion.
We also have multiple whistleblower testimony which reports that UFOs have been seen over missile silos and have disabled the electronic mechanisms. That is 'proof' of aliens too.
The point is that different countries do not want the aliens presence known by their populations. China for one, wants to keep the peace within its borders and do not like demonstrations of any kind. USA is getting more and more like a 'police state' and aggressive towards its populations coming out onto the streets. Each country has its own reasons for not wanting to disclose ET presence.
Money, well, NASA is the public face of space travel and they will always get money. It may go up and down as the people wax and wane in interest in space, but they have not been shut down yet and they dont exactly tell us what they are doing do they? They are just playing at space exploration anyway because I believe there IS a secret space program with far better technology than rockets and jets. Remember the many billions of unaccounted-for money? Well it may have gone towards keeping the secret space program going.
I ask myself why are they wasting money like that when they (perhaps) do not even believe it is possible?
YES! Finally got you to ask the question why! This is a good start.
I think it was a smart move. The Zombie preparedness was just general disaster preparedness which the CDC releases regularly. There is no mention of weapons. It will help more in the event of a hurricane than in the event of a zombie horde. It actually increased their views for similar material and was all over the press. Great move on my part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
I consider myself a "gullible UFO nutjob". You see, the thing is, I believe it is others who are gullible because there is enough information out there to draw the 'aliens-are-here' conclusions, yet the others dont want to see it that way. Numerous whistle blowers have come forward to tell their story, yet the others do not believe that either. They believe these are all 'stories' which are made up by more nutjobs.
The UK hacker Gary McKinnon tells us what he found. It was a list of off-world officers names. This suggests there is a space program which is unacknowledged. Corey Goode has come forward to say he was a member of this secret space program. He says there are bases on the Moon which are used by both ETs and by Earth military. He says there are different races of ETs working with different countries with different agendas.
OK, this all could be rubbish, however,
Yes, which is why I would like real proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
the more bits and pieces of information which fit together makes it less likely to be rubbish in my "gullible UFO nutjob" opinion.
We also have multiple whistleblower testimony which reports that UFOs have been seen over missile silos and have disabled the electronic mechanisms. That is 'proof' of aliens too.
Is it proof of aliens or is it just proof that this happened? I mean if this were done is it proof of aliens? Could not a human military be responsible?
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
The point is that different countries do not want the aliens presence known by their populations.
This is just speculation. The US actually funds a space agency looking for extraterrestrial life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
China for one, wants to keep the peace within its borders and do not like demonstrations of any kind. USA is getting more and more like a 'police state' and aggressive towards its populations coming out onto the streets.
This is also not true. You do not even live in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Each country has its own reasons for not wanting to disclose ET presence.
This is an excuse that people who believe in UFO's use not to provide proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
Money, well, NASA is the public face of space travel and they will always get money. It may go up and down as the people wax and wane in interest in space, but they have not been shut down yet and they dont exactly tell us what they are doing do they?
Actually they do ocpaul20. They have a lot of information out there. But living in China maybe you should be more concerned with the Chinese Space Agency?
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Originally Posted by ocpaul20
They are just playing at space exploration anyway because I believe
I do not care what you believe. It is not proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
there IS a secret space program with far better technology than rockets and jets. Remember the many billions of unaccounted-for money? Well it may have gone towards keeping the secret space program going.
Every announcement of evidence that might point to the existence of intelligent communication or civilization off world is met with extreme curiosity, speculation, and excitement by both scientists and the public. The only people whose world view would be threatened by first contact are fundamentalists of various stripes (that's what's portrayed in the movie Contact). Most Christians/Jews/Muslims/etc are not fundamentalist. Yet the myth persists in this forum that a government that can't even balance a budget has the ability to surpress the truth; scientists will go to any length to hide or deny information that fits outside their paradigm; and the belief systems of the rest of society are so fragile that they'll collapse if first contact is made.
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