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Old 04-11-2015, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,770,362 times
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Well that's two separate issues.

1. There are no aliens because all the evidence is bogus.

2. If aliens exist and our government knows and releases the evidence there will be chaos.

You seem to be using 1 to argue 2 and I don't want to argue that. Just to concentrate on 2 for a moment i do think that a significant portion of the population would go crazy OR just want to pull their kids out of school and sit in their bunkers or go live in cult like communes. That isn't like blowing something up but would cause problems when some of these people turn out to be police, firemen, doctors, utility workers, politicians, truck and train and crane operators or their wives and husbands.
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Old 04-13-2015, 06:54 AM
 
Location: MA
1,179 posts, read 674,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Agreed with everything you wrote there. But next ...




You lose me there entirely. I have never understood this argument. If we do someday get definitive proof of alien life visiting Earth, why would people freak out? Why would civilization "melt down?" I don't get that.

When European civilization confirmed that there were indeed lands to the west and that the world is round, civilization didn't collapse. They made better maps and sought new opportunities.

This argument is one of the major weak links in the whole "conspiracy" argument.
I was taking the extreme view on this one. I for one would be thrilled if I learn that we are not alone (which I assume so far we are not given the vastness of the universe).

I think the meltdown comes from religious bodies and their followers. That is said in many cases that society would melt down (which i don't agree by the way). I think humans have come a long way and they can take it.

But i get your point of view, I just didn't fully exlain my extreme viewpoint example
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Old 04-13-2015, 06:56 AM
 
Location: MA
1,179 posts, read 674,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annuvin View Post
To play Devil's Advocate, every time any compelling video evidence does come forward, it is immediately dismissed as a hoax. Just as there are those who are convinced that Queen Elizabeth is a shape-shifting space lizard, there are those who would remain skeptical about the existence of extraterrestrials even if an alien landed on their front lawn and b**chslapped them.

As for the cell phone comment... Let's just say I have had a personal experience where my brain simply could not process what my eyes were seeing. At the time, reaching for my smart phone to snap a photo was the very last thing on my mind.

I understand both your paragraphs.

These days one cannot really tell hoax from truth. Seems like everything can be debunked as a hoax.

The shock factor, I get you there. Practically all of us would be frozen while watching something out of this world.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:03 AM
 
Location: MA
1,179 posts, read 674,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Said by who?

OK, that should be easy to prove since it is here. Show me some proof. Also I am interested in the "ancient" (Are there any new Sumerians?) Sumerians information on aliens on the moon.

Source and context for that image? Cause it looks like nothing to me.

Most truth is bogus? Interesting.

What if my grandmother has testicles? Would she be my grandfather?

Why does that raise the question of the validity? Also there are multiple governments that have studied the moon and they all do not always agree.

I disagree that anything is possible.


No it is not.

LOL, Governments are made up of people. If there was something this large there would be lots of people involved and it would not be a secret.

Specifically what resources? And would an advanced society still need the same resources that it needed 2,000 years ago. Why are they not harvesting these resources now?

I think they would have if aliens were visiting earth. I am not shocked that with better camera and video technology that we have less pictures. It is almost as if it is becoming to hard to perpetrate a fraud with the better technology and absence of grainy pictures.....

I could accept that if I thought aliens would have a need for something like that and if there were no clear historical record to backup the evolution of our satellite dishes....which there is. We even had them before we landed on the moon.

Interesting, but there are amateur space watchers that document and record launches and satellites, even tracking trajectory changes.

This is true but it does not address what it is said. You stated "our moon is the only moon in the solar system where one side of the moon is never visible from the planet" and were provided with several examples challenging this. Instead of admitting you were wrong or addressing the information provided you went off on an unrelated tangent similar to a squid squirting out ink to elude capture. If you have valid points you should be able to address criticism.

What other source of information other than what you have seen in front of you or on the Internet do you use?

I think that is what the whole movement is about "I am better than you because I KNOW something you don't". Which I find disingenuous and counter productive.

If I owned a fountain of youth I would be rich. IF IF IF.

Well there are people who track this stuff as a hobby as well as multiple governments that track this as well.

To who? Because I can guarantee if there was proof of this there would be a private enterprise planning on going there or telling us about it when they got back 10-20 years ago....


Please give me some examples of this compelling evidence?
You seem to know the answer to everything, that shows that you're a seeing is beleiving person and the possibility of 'what if' never crosses your mind. Most of your responses are based on 'so what?'

See how you dismiss everything but put your viewpoint as the end all be all based on your truth in reasoning.

While your point of view shows a one way point of view (horse with blinders), I might not agree with them, but I respect your opinion.
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Old 04-13-2015, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Maine
19,269 posts, read 22,949,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
I think the meltdown comes from religious bodies and their followers.
Which ones? Saying "religious people" is like saying "cuisine." Yes, Mexican food and Chinese food and Italian food and Russian food are all food, but they are all very, very different from one another. But on this topic, you're selling the religious folks short.

CHRISTIANITY. The American fundamentalists would freak out. But they represent a small fraction of Christianity. The Catholic, Orthodox, and mainline Protestant churches (who represent the overwhelming majority of Earth's Christians) would most certainly not melt down. Some of the world's greatest astronomers are Jesuits, and the Vatican is so open-minded on this topic that many of the conspiracy nutsos think they're involved.

HINDUISM would have zero problem with E.T. It fits right into their cosmology. If anything, the Hindus would say, "Ah-ha! Did I not tell you so?"

BUDDHISM would have zero problem with E.T.

JUDAISM would have zero problem with E.T.

ISLAM ... there I have to confess I am largely ignorant. But I suspect that Islam would not melt down either.

And there you have the world's major religions. No meltdowns.

As for the minor religions, if the SCIENTOLOGISTS melt down, how will we tell? Their normal behavior is so bizarre that I'm not sure anyone would even notice a meltdown.

The only major controversy I see coming out of such a revelation would be if it was at last proven that the government had known about E.T. for 70 years and had been suppressing the truth. We might have a Watergate level mess, but society won't collapse unless the saucers start melting cities.
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Old 04-13-2015, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,629,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Of course, because they stopped him and it was over. But my point is what if it was more then one sniper. And if something like that was happening daily? If just 1 out of 20 people decided to stay home and go into their panic room or bunker and not come out, that would cause issues with the world and the economy.

I think an announcement of intelligent alien life would cause a small but significant portion of the world population to do things that would be detrimental enough to affect the rest of our lives and society in general.
Ummmm....there was more than one sniper.....

You say "if" when it did not happen. I was here. Some people were a little scared, some people joked about it (Even wearing T-Shirts with targets on them!), and I know of nobody who missed work because of it. We did not know how many snipers there were!

You can think that an announcement of aliens would cause a significant portion of the world to act differently but there is no proof for that. Are there any actual events that support this? People say this but at the end of the day people have to eat and drink and most have to pay the bills. I think life would go on pretty much as normal unless there was something happening.....not a breakdown based solely to speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Well that's two separate issues.

1. There are no aliens because all the evidence is bogus.

2. If aliens exist and our government knows and releases the evidence there will be chaos.

You seem to be using 1 to argue 2 and I don't want to argue that. Just to concentrate on 2 for a moment i do think that a significant portion of the population would go crazy OR just want to pull their kids out of school and sit in their bunkers or go live in cult like communes. That isn't like blowing something up but would cause problems when some of these people turn out to be police, firemen, doctors, utility workers, politicians, truck and train and crane operators or their wives and husbands.
If proof of aliens were released by the government would you be in the calm group or the crazy group?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
I understand both your paragraphs.

These days one cannot really tell hoax from truth. Seems like everything can be debunked as a hoax.

The shock factor, I get you there. Practically all of us would be frozen while watching something out of this world.
Well if it is a hoax, yes. Which is why we have less "UFO" and "Alien" hoaxes than in the past. People know it will be debunked so they do not even try to hoax people as they did in the past. With new cameras there is no reason for the images to be grainy and fuzzy as opposed to clear....where it is even easier to prove the hoax.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
You seem to know the answer to everything, that shows that you're a seeing is beleiving person and the possibility of 'what if' never crosses your mind. Most of your responses are based on 'so what?'
That is insulting and not supported by fact. I do believe in "what if's" and I do believe in things that I cannot see....such as atoms. Also I am not a know it all.

I have asked simple, reasonable, questions that anyone who supports this theory should be able to answer. Do not try to insult or belittle me to redirect that. I would be interested if there were an alien base on the moon but there is NO/NONE/ZILCH/ZERO proof of that and it would be fairly easy to detect 20 mile tall structures even on the far side of the moon.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Not insults and redirection. Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
See how you dismiss everything but put your viewpoint as the end all be all based on your truth in reasoning.
I did not dismiss anything reasonable. I just asked reasonable questions which I feel you have dismissed and insulted me instead of addressing. To me this weakens any claim you had to a valid point even further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
While your point of view shows a one way point of view (horse with blinders), I might not agree with them, but I respect your opinion.
Horse with blinders? Again with this insults. Please spend more time addressing the simple questions or statements that I made and less on trying to insult others in an attempt to feel superior.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 14,770,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Ummmm....there was more than one sniper.....

You say "if" when it did not happen. I was here. Some people were a little scared, some people joked about it (Even wearing T-Shirts with targets on them!), and I know of nobody who missed work because of it. We did not know how many snipers there were!
I mean a sniper in every major city. And bombers. And mass shootings. Every day, two or three times a day or more. I think ive been pretty clear on that. I dont understand why you are just fixated on the dc sniper when it was just but one example of many. Im beginning to think you are trolling me.

Quote:
You can think that
Hey thank for giving me permission to share an opinion that's different from yours. Oh but wait mine is just an opinion and you only speak fact, right? Funny.

Quote:
If proof of aliens were released by the government would you be in the calm group or the crazy group?
Ah ok now im sure of it.
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Old 04-13-2015, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,629,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I mean a sniper in every major city. And bombers. And mass shootings. Every day, two or three times a day or more. I think ive been pretty clear on that. I dont understand why you are just fixated on the dc sniper when it was just but one example of many. Im beginning to think you are trolling me.
I mentioned the DC sniper as an example counter to what you were saying as fact. There are actually areas in this world where people do go about their daily lives in fear. Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia and possibly Nigeria. These all counter what you are saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Hey thank for giving me permission to share an opinion that's different from yours. Oh but wait mine is just an opinion and you only speak fact, right? Funny.
I like how you edited my post out of context so you could make this statement. You continue to insult, do not address simple questions or concerns and edit things out of context. I guess you are not here to discuss things in good faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post

Ah ok now im sure of it.
I will ask again. If proof of aliens were released by the government would you be in the calm group or the crazy group?

Last edited by Old Guard; 04-13-2015 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 04-13-2015, 11:49 AM
 
Location: MA
1,179 posts, read 674,550 times
Reputation: 662
This is a very controversial topic indeed. We all have an opinion based on subjective beliefs. So somehow in many cases we have to agree to disagree.

Old Guard, don't take this too seriously, chances arethat we are all wrong on this thread. My personal belief is that we are not the only intelligent species in the universe.

We may have been visited or still being visited by races probably far superior that us in all aspects.

The Govt hides a lot from us as it is from the little things so I assume that the bigger picture like an alien presence could be kept even more classified.

We the public are not informed on many items when it comes to the possibilities of extra terrestrial activities.

It would be arrogant of us to think that:
a. We are the only species that has developed
b. The Govt tells us all.

Those are just my opinions and do not reflect the masses
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Old 04-13-2015, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,629,004 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asgardian View Post
This is a very controversial topic indeed. We all have an opinion based on subjective beliefs. So somehow in many cases we have to agree to disagree.

Old Guard, don't take this too seriously, chances arethat we are all wrong on this thread. My personal belief is that we are not the only intelligent species in the universe.

We may have been visited or still being visited by races probably far superior that us in all aspects.

The Govt hides a lot from us as it is from the little things so I assume that the bigger picture like an alien presence could be kept even more classified.

We the public are not informed on many items when it comes to the possibilities of extra terrestrial activities.

It would be arrogant of us to think that:
a. We are the only species that has developed
b. The Govt tells us all.

Those are just my opinions and do not reflect the masses
The Government conspiracy angle is played out. The Government is not a single entity. It is comprised of thousands and tens of thousands of individuals. Even if the Government wanted to classify something so big there is little chance it would not have leaked and leaked with evidence by now. Also it would not just have to be the US government hiding this but several governments hiding this which decreases the possibility of keeping such a big thing a secret for over 70 years over several American presidential administrations.

I am not taking the stance that "The Government" tells us everything.
I believe that there is other life in this universe.

I just do not think that the Government has anything to hide or if they did that they would be capable of it.
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