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Old 06-26-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,445 posts, read 12,393,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
Venus is easy to identify - it's crescent shaped when viewed through binoculars...
You do realize Venus has phases, right? It's not always crescent-shaped.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:54 PM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,108,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
"Hey Gort, let's go mess with the humans tonight."

"Sure, but this time let's use some colored lights that look just like their navigation lights. We'll go back and forth, fly around erratically, then come back to the same spot."

"Gort, you are so bad - that'll really mess with their tiny brains."

"Wait, aren't humans in their sleep cycle right now?"

"Uh... yeah... but there might be a few out there."

"Why don't we do this in the day, when the humans are active?"

"Because they won't see the lights in the day!!!!"
Wow, Dirt. Really funny (NOT), and completely unimaginative.

So what is YOUR explanation for why ... no matter where you go on Earth ... no matter what continent, or what epoch, human's have recorded their history as saying they saw GODs coming from the sky, who created us in their image, and who helped them form their civilizations, and taught them how to protect the Earth and live in harmony together? It's just coincidence?!?!

Please, I know this isn't Bigfoot, or other protected discussion on this forum, but please, give this some thought before you go off on yet another rude and ridiculously simple (I HOPE you are not as simple) tangent.

Why did ALL human civilizations form this thing called "religion"? ... Where Gods came out of the sky, and told us that we were created in their image? Why do so many of these religions include stories of Gods mixing their DNA with Humans.

Please spare us your simple insults, and provide thoughts that might explain where humans ... the ONLY biped animal EVER on the Earth, might've come from, and why ALL of us, no matter where on Earth our civilization first developed, have the same stories.

I feel you have you head buried so far in the sand that you cannot see what might be the truth.

I prefer to keep an open mind about it. I am not saying it is DEFINITELY true, but, to ME, it seems much more plausible than the straight readings of ANY of the current religious books. And if it's true, then "THEY" are probably still out here, nearby, and keeping an eye on their experiment.

And I'm sure they are very happy to have gullible subjects such as yourself.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,445 posts, read 12,393,803 times
Reputation: 28299
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Wow, Dirt. Really funny (NOT), and completely unimaginative.

So what is YOUR explanation for why ... no matter where you go on Earth ... no matter what continent, or what epoch, human's have recorded their history as saying they saw GODs coming from the sky, who created us in their image, and who helped them form their civilizations, and taught them how to protect the Earth and live in harmony together? It's just coincidence?!?!

Please, I know this isn't Bigfoot, or other protected discussion on this forum, but please, give this some thought before you go off on yet another rude and ridiculously simple (I HOPE you are not as simple) tangent.

Why did ALL human civilizations form this thing called "religion"? ... Where Gods came out of the sky, and told us that we were created in their image? Why do so many of these religions include stories of Gods mixing their DNA with Humans.

Please spare us your simple insults, and provide thoughts that might explain where humans ... the ONLY biped animal EVER on the Earth, might've come from, and why ALL of us, no matter where on Earth our civilization first developed, have the same stories.

I feel you have you head buried so far in the sand that you cannot see what might be the truth.

I prefer to keep an open mind about it. I am not saying it is DEFINITELY true, but, to ME, it seems much more plausible than the straight readings of ANY of the current religious books. And if it's true, then "THEY" are probably still out here, nearby, and keeping an eye on their experiment.

And I'm sure they are very happy to have gullible subjects such as yourself.
I feel like I'm in a world where intelligence is waning. Maybe it's time to build a circle with big stones and worship airplanes and satellites as they fly overhead at night.

BTW - which religions "include stories of Gods mixing their DNA with Humans?" Humans weren't even aware of DNA until the late 1860s.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
1,474 posts, read 1,940,806 times
Reputation: 3250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
Yeah, ''Hangar 1'' is cases from MUFON. Season finale is tonight at 10p on History.
Watching it right now
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:03 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,299 posts, read 12,896,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
So then people are nothing more than farmed trout for ET farmers? "That is what the ET's are about." Are the ET's planning to eat us? Apparently them danged ET farmers have been slackin' off agin insteada keepin' the trout well fed, not to mention the tank is gittin' kinda dirty and could use a bit of cleanin'. If they're farmers that have been seeding, there's more to it than just sowing seeds. It takes providing adequate nutrients and irrigation. Come to think of it, the West Coast could use a bit of irrigation and California is getting kind of parched. Maybe farming isn't the best comparative example to use.

If it's about ET's "monitoring for a possible world takeover", couldn't they have done that some 50 or 60 years ago? The population hasn't exactly been shrinking.
I don't think we can figure out the motivations of a more highly advanced race of beings with different physiologies, evolutionary history, and central nervous system. Our civilizations didn't even exist before a few thousand years ago, before that we were simply smart apes with no motivations other than getting food, getting laid, defending turf, and sleeping at night. Our science and technology, a few hundred years old.

Can a baboon understand why scientists follow it around and shoot tranquilizer darts into it every now and then? (Sapolsky). I suppose that's the best we can guess at, that they're studying us out of curiosity, just as we do to animals and other humans.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,445 posts, read 12,393,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
...I prefer to keep an open mind about it...
An open mind would see a light in the sky and consider it to be a conventional aircraft, a satellite, a planet, a sky lantern, a radio controlled plane or helicopter, anything reasonable, before entertaining the thought that it was something extra-terrestrial.

Too many folks today see something they don't understand and jump to the most far-fetched explanation first. "Look, that jet's spraying chemtrails!" "That light's acting strange, it can't be of this world!"
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:15 AM
 
5,462 posts, read 8,652,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I don't think we can figure out the motivations of a more highly advanced race of beings with different physiologies, evolutionary history, and central nervous system. Our civilizations didn't even exist before a few thousand years ago, before that we were simply smart apes with no motivations other than getting food, getting laid, defending turf, and sleeping at night. Our science and technology, a few hundred years old.

Can a baboon understand why scientists follow it around and shoot tranquilizer darts into it every now and then? (Sapolsky). I suppose that's the best we can guess at, that they're studying us out of curiosity, just as we do to animals and other humans.
The thing is that it's pretty awkward for a person to compare speculated aliens with fish farming and to say "That is what ET's are about," as though it's some kind of actual fact. Thus my point to suggest that maybe fish farming isn't a very good example to use for comparison.

Come on Woof. Baboons? Really? Assuming some kind of alien thing is lurking around, why add further assumption that such aliens are out to study humans, let alone like scientists studying baboons? If we're going to go all out with speculation, then one could also assume that perhaps such aliens are not intelligent entities at all, but are instead are nothing more than autonomous machines out doing a survey of planets and life forms around the galaxy.

If such alien entities are so extremely advanced in intelligence, as per your suggestion, that we'd be similar to baboons, then it would seem that such entities would not be able to differentiate humans among any other living creature on the planet. But that wouldn't exactly hold much weight because the behavior of humans are pretty apparent in terms of artificial constructs that would require a higher degree of intelligence over other animals. We may be like naked apes, but there aren't any other apes that build cities, construct vehicles, artificially generate power, have the ability to travel off the Earth, have an influence on the entire planet, etc. Humans seem to have the ability to think, communicate and mentally visualize with abstract symbols. Humans have indeed developed much higher forms of technology than any other creature on the planet, significantly enough that it's pretty conspicuous. On the other hand, there are some humans that certainly behave in ways that make apes seem much more intelligent. In any case, I would think that even a highly advanced alien would likely recognize humans as possessing a degree of intelligence. While human civilization is thought to have originated around 14,000 years ago, the dynamics of it has progressed rather rapidly in a relatively short period of time.

I'd be inclined to say there's no need for aliens to be "fish farming" humans. Humans seem to be managing on it's own as it is, sometimes for better and sometimes not so good. It's part of the human experience. Unfortunately, sometimes people, for a lack of information about unknown events, will sometimes use a proxy as an explanation. With respect to presumed ET's, such explanations tend to assign more in the way of earthly human traits to such ET's which may have little to nothing to do with ET's.

Here'a another speculation - how do we know ET's are actually intelligent at all, much less possess a highly advanced form of intelligence? What's used to determine that? How do we know that such alleged ET's aren't anything more than some kind of large space virus?
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:50 AM
pvs
 
1,845 posts, read 3,108,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
The thing is that it's pretty awkward for a person to compare speculated aliens with fish farming and to say "That is what ET's are about," as though it's some kind of actual fact.
I don't think anyone is saying the idea of ETs creating/watching/controlling us is any kind of actual fact. But there ARE those among us who entertain the idea that it's a possibility. Why wouldn't it be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Thus my point to suggest that maybe fish farming isn't a very good example to use for comparison.

Come on Woof. Baboons? Really? Assuming some kind of alien thing is lurking around, why add further assumption that such aliens are out to study humans, let alone like scientists studying baboons?
Do you really believe that there could be no other life forms in the Universe? That is a very myopic and "Earthanocentric" viewpoint, in my eyes. Frankly, I HOPE we're not the "be-all/end-all" in this Universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
If we're going to go all out with speculation, then one could also assume that perhaps such aliens are not intelligent entities at all, but are instead are nothing more than autonomous machines out doing a survey of planets and life forms around the galaxy.
Well, that's even further out than those of us who believe ETs with UFOs might be possible ... but why not? This IS the right forum for discussing those possibilities, is it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
If such alien entities are so extremely advanced in intelligence, as per your suggestion, that we'd be similar to baboons, then it would seem that such entities would not be able to differentiate humans among any other living creature on the planet.
Whaaaat?!?!? Why would you ever make this assumption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
But that wouldn't exactly hold much weight because the behavior of humans are pretty apparent in terms of artificial constructs that would require a higher degree of intelligence over other animals. We may be like naked apes, but there aren't any other apes that build cities, construct vehicles, artificially generate power, have the ability to travel off the Earth, have an influence on the entire planet, etc. Humans seem to have the ability to think, communicate and mentally visualize with abstract symbols. Humans have indeed developed much higher forms of technology than any other creature on the planet, significantly enough that it's pretty conspicuous.
Okay ... so you came to your senses, I guess. Seriously ... on which side of your own argument do you stand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
On the other hand, there are some humans that certainly behave in ways that make apes seem much more intelligent. In any case, I would think that even a highly advanced alien would likely recognize humans as possessing a degree of intelligence. While human civilization is thought to have originated around 14,000 years ago, the dynamics of it has progressed rather rapidly in a relatively short period of time.
Flip-flop much, do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
I'd be inclined to say there's no need for aliens to be "fish farming" humans.
It's great that you don't believe in them, yet you know their agenda. How do you do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Humans seem to be managing on it's own as it is, sometimes for better and sometimes not so good. It's part of the human experience. Unfortunately, sometimes people, for a lack of information about unknown events, will sometimes use a proxy as an explanation.
Sorry, I don't understand these past few sentences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
With respect to presumed ET's, such explanations tend to assign more in the way of earthly human traits to such ET's which may have little to nothing to do with ET's.
Hey, YOU'RE the one who knows their agenda. But yes, I DO agree with this. For example ... I cringe whenever I see an episode of Ancient Aliens where they claim that aliens thought human women we SO sexy, and yadda yadda yadda. No, IMO, this is just stupid. But I DO think it's possible that they bred, or did genetic experiments on early (and maybe even contemporary) humans, for some, unknown-to-us reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Here'a another speculation - how do we know ET's are actually intelligent at all, much less possess a highly advanced form of intelligence? What's used to determine that? How do we know that such alleged ET's aren't anything more than some kind of large space virus?
That is exactly it ... we DON'T know, for sure. Maybe both viral and intelligent alien life exists. Maybe ALL viruses came from outside the Earth's atmosphere at some time. There is SO MUCH we don't know. Knowing/accepting that we don't know makes us smarter in the long run.
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,299 posts, read 12,896,584 times
Reputation: 8069
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
The thing is that it's pretty awkward for a person to compare speculated aliens with fish farming and to say "That is what ET's are about," as though it's some kind of actual fact. Thus my point to suggest that maybe fish farming isn't a very good example to use for comparison.

Come on Woof. Baboons? Really? Assuming some kind of alien thing is lurking around, why add further assumption that such aliens are out to study humans, let alone like scientists studying baboons? If we're going to go all out with speculation, then one could also assume that perhaps such aliens are not intelligent entities at all, but are instead are nothing more than autonomous machines out doing a survey of planets and life forms around the galaxy.

If such alien entities are so extremely advanced in intelligence, as per your suggestion, that we'd be similar to baboons, then it would seem that such entities would not be able to differentiate humans among any other living creature on the planet. But that wouldn't exactly hold much weight because the behavior of humans are pretty apparent in terms of artificial constructs that would require a higher degree of intelligence over other animals. We may be like naked apes, but there aren't any other apes that build cities, construct vehicles, artificially generate power, have the ability to travel off the Earth, have an influence on the entire planet, etc. Humans seem to have the ability to think, communicate and mentally visualize with abstract symbols. Humans have indeed developed much higher forms of technology than any other creature on the planet, significantly enough that it's pretty conspicuous. On the other hand, there are some humans that certainly behave in ways that make apes seem much more intelligent. In any case, I would think that even a highly advanced alien would likely recognize humans as possessing a degree of intelligence. While human civilization is thought to have originated around 14,000 years ago, the dynamics of it has progressed rather rapidly in a relatively short period of time.

I'd be inclined to say there's no need for aliens to be "fish farming" humans. Humans seem to be managing on it's own as it is, sometimes for better and sometimes not so good. It's part of the human experience. Unfortunately, sometimes people, for a lack of information about unknown events, will sometimes use a proxy as an explanation. With respect to presumed ET's, such explanations tend to assign more in the way of earthly human traits to such ET's which may have little to nothing to do with ET's.

Here'a another speculation - how do we know ET's are actually intelligent at all, much less possess a highly advanced form of intelligence? What's used to determine that? How do we know that such alleged ET's aren't anything more than some kind of large space virus?
Well, first off I don't believe the fish farming or conquest hypotheses are likely. I was just pointing out the near impossibility of figuring out their motives without a lot more reliable data than we have.

But we do have evidence that there is some very high-tech intelligence maneuvering some sighted objects. Generally, I find that anyone who denies that simply hasn't read into it much, other than perhaps an occasional debunking article. You can only claim that they're all something completely mundane like Chinese lanterns or Venus if you haven't read the actual accounts, including those of pilots scrambled to chase them after radar alerts, and then coming close, and watching as they maneuver impossibly fast and change direction abruptly. There are MANY such reports from around the world, including once highly publicized over the White House in the 50s with many radar images and visual sightings, that put the military on high alert.

There are accounts from all sorts of people, not just average citizens but also well-trained pilots, numerous police, and even two presidents (Carter and Reagan). Freedom of information lawsuits have forced the govt to release documents that sometimes indicate two sets of records kept - one an official Blue Book type denial, but also a classified document usually indicating puzzlement. These released documents have been mostly heavily blacked out in the name of national security.

So it's very hard to read all the evidence and not come to the conclusion that there are intelligent air and space craft behind some of the sightings, well beyond our current KNOWN technology.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean extraterrestrials are behind it or are visiting us. I only believe that's the leading hypothesis on the preponderance of evidence I've seen, in conjunction with my own reasoning - which isn't always ploddingly scientific. The unexplained "impossible" sightings could be products of our own secret military research (as with many sightings now attributed to the various Stealth planes). They might be military disinformation to cover up such secret research by attributing them to the loony fringe, as seems to have been the case with at least some cattle mutilations (the "surgical" kind). Can they project holograms onto the sky? That could account for impossible maneuverings. And it's well known that false radar images can be transmitted.

There are other possibilities, but they are a little too weird for me.

Basically, I believe extraterrestrials are visiting us, or at least their unmanned drones, but I don't really have a clue as to their motivations. I can't even figure out Putin's motivations, or those driving some people to become proctologists, much less those of an entirely different kind of lifeform with a different evolutionary history. I like to think it's mainly to stand off for the most part and do research, perhaps occasional contacts with a goal of slowly acclimatizing us toward a first contact. But who knows at this point.
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Old 06-27-2015, 02:28 PM
 
5,462 posts, read 8,652,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
I don't think anyone is saying the idea of ETs creating/watching/controlling us is any kind of actual fact. But there ARE those among us who entertain the idea that it's a possibility. Why wouldn't it be?
My point was to indicate that comparing aliens with fish farming doesn't make much sense. A statement was made saying: "If seeding of humans to exist there would be a 'farmer' doing his checking. That is what the ET's are about." That's a pretty bold statement that gives no indication it's not meant as a fact. No where did I say anything about whether the idea is entertained or not. Interesting choice of words - "entertain". Nor did I say anything about whether the "idea" is possible or not. You should probably read more carefully before jumping to mistaken conclusions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Do you really believe that there could be no other life forms in the Universe? That is a very myopic and "Earthanocentric" viewpoint, in my eyes. Frankly, I HOPE we're not the "be-all/end-all" in this Universe.
No idea how you came up with that notion. Where did I say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Well, that's even further out than those of us who believe ETs with UFOs might be possible ... but why not? This IS the right forum for discussing those possibilities, is it not?
Exactly. It is pretty far out, which was precisely the point. That said, do you have any evidence to dismiss it as impossible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Whaaaat?!?!? Why would you ever make this assumption?
The idea was about the possibility that an alien many times more advanced in intelligence than us would be like us being more intelligently advanced than baboons. Try reading before you sound off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Okay ... so you came to your senses, I guess. Seriously ... on which side of your own argument do you stand?
What kind of question is that? Sorry, but you're the one not making much sense. How about clarifying yourself instead of making pointless comments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Flip-flop much, do you?
That says absolutely nothing. Troll much, do you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
It's great that you don't believe in them, yet you know their agenda. How do you do that?
So then you think the agenda is that aliens are fish farming humans? Again, you're twisting things out of context and adding things that I didn't say. I said nothing about knowing an agenda. I gave an opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Sorry, I don't understand these past few sentences.
If you don't understand that, you might want to work on your reading comprehension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
Hey, YOU'RE the one who knows their agenda. But yes, I DO agree with this. For example ... I cringe whenever I see an episode of Ancient Aliens where they claim that aliens thought human women we SO sexy, and yadda yadda yadda. No, IMO, this is just stupid. But I DO think it's possible that they bred, or did genetic experiments on early (and maybe even contemporary) humans, for some, unknown-to-us reason.
More trolling but at least we both agree on common ground that some of the yammering on the Ancient Aliens programs can be pretty absurd.

You're certainly entitled to cling to your opinion about possible breeding and genetic experiments on early humans for reasons unknown. Okay. Meaning what? That aliens bred and experimented with early humans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvs View Post
That is exactly it ... we DON'T know, for sure. Maybe both viral and intelligent alien life exists. Maybe ALL viruses came from outside the Earth's atmosphere at some time. There is SO MUCH we don't know. Knowing/accepting that we don't know makes us smarter in the long run.
Again, we agree that there is much we don't know. We KNOW that viruses exist and we KNOW that intelligent life exists. There's no maybe about that. In my opinion, while it's possible viruses might be from outside the Earth's atmosphere, I think it's more likely they probably emerged here on the Earth. While there are different kinds of viruses, most of them seem to have the characteristic to mutate rapidly in order to mimic the host. Interestingly though, not long ago, the largest virus ever was discovered. Size-wise it's about 700 nanometers. One nanometer is about one billionth of a meter. 700 nanometers is large compared to most viruses, but still very small. There's still a lot we don't know and a lot of new discoveries yet to be made.


Getting back on topic, I do think there are UFO's that show up in the skies every so often. Could they be alien controlled? Possible, but I also think it's pretty unlikely. Again, there are a lot of things we don't yet know. In my opinion, a lot could be misidentification, secret unmanned military craft, natural phenomena not well understood. Could some be alien spacecraft? While nothing is impossible, I'm not going to be waving any banners any time soon in support of the idea. There is no requirement that they have to be ET technologies.
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