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Old 07-07-2015, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,409,655 times
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While I am a believer that some UFOs are truly craft piloted and/or sent by non-human intelligences from beyond planet Earth I have a hard time believing "they" would be lousy enough at flying to actually crash in New Mexico, then fail to recover their crashed comrades/technology before the US military several days later and allow the obviously hostile natives (it was common practice for the military to actually shoot at UFOs in those days) to keep their crashed flying saucer and the bodies of the alien pilots.

Really, it would be like leaving a crashed but relatively intact stealth bomber + dead pilots and loaded with nuclear weapons out in the jungle for the natives to play with even though we had total ability and time clean up the mess... making ET look pretty damn stupid, inept and irresponsible. Personally, I don't think "they" are any of those things.

IF Roswell was truly extraterrestrial in nature, it would of had to be a unmanned (more like unaliened ) defunct exploration probe, perhaps thousands of years old and likely not too far ahead of our own tech today. It would have been almost totally destroyed when it entered the atmosphere/crashed and the military would not have been able to glean much info from it besides that it was artificially constructed and didn't come from Planet Earth. I'd suspect the Brazel Ranch crash was the ONLY crash... the second site the archaeology students supposedly ran across which reportedly had a mostly complete ship and alien bodies just sounds like a story to flavor the larger myth to me.

Its even more likely that the Roswell thing was an entirely earthbound black project gone awry. Some knucklehead in intelligence probably thought a "flying disk" cover story would be a good bumsteer for the Russians without thinking the implications through and the military had been lying about lies upon lies ever since in a desperate attempt to cover up the mess. Perhaps it was something dangerous to public health (a early nuclear powered airplane?) which necessitated absolute secrecy or perhaps even Project Mogul was the truth... "Loose lips sink ships" was still fresh on the military's mind so even more mundane experiments would have been hush-hush stuff.

Meanwhile on the civilian side of things, the story just got bigger and more mythologized over time, until it evolved into the elaborate twin alien saucer crashes story we have today.

All I know is that the UFO community would be fairly disappointed if they could go through the Roswell file drawer at Area 51... the myth is almost certainly larger than the reality of the event.

Last edited by Chango; 07-07-2015 at 10:20 PM..
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Old 07-08-2015, 11:54 AM
 
1,684 posts, read 537,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
The bible is full of allegorical tales, particularly the old testament (Adam and Eve for example), even most religious figures admit that they should not be taken literally.
But I am not sure how that relates to the topic of a flying saucer landing in Roswell. You can still believe in alien intelligent life, as I do, and dismiss Roswell. It seems you want to discuss an entirely different topic that is out of scope to this discussion.
You are the exception to the rule. Reliable credible sources have made it clear what was transported from NM to Wright-Patt in Dayton. In any case, most people who are militantly insistent that there is NO WAY life could exist anywhere else in the universe do happen to be anti-science religious fundamentalists. They feel the concept of life elsewhere is a threat to the credibility of their book that they take absolutely literally beginning to end.

The motivation of the skeptics (not you, the hard-core skeptics that is) needs to be an issue on this topic just as the anti-science people who reject the possibility of climate change in spite of a mountain of scientific evidence. If it's corporations with billions of dollars at stake, that is no surprise they do it. If it's a guy named Bubba with $5 to his name that never finished 10th grade who just listened to some fringe radio show on the local a.m. radio dial telling what to think, he's either doing it to be an anti-intellect contrarian or religious fundie or both.
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:02 PM
 
14,035 posts, read 20,252,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emanresu1 View Post
You are the exception to the rule. Reliable credible sources have made it clear what was transported from NM to Wright-Patt in Dayton. In any case, most people who are militantly insistent that there is NO WAY life could exist anywhere else in the universe do happen to be anti-science religious fundamentalists. They feel the concept of life elsewhere is a threat to the credibility of their book that they take absolutely literally beginning to end.

The motivation of the skeptics (not you, the hard-core skeptics that is) needs to be an issue on this topic just as the anti-science people who reject the possibility of climate change in spite of a mountain of scientific evidence. If it's corporations with billions of dollars at stake, that is no surprise they do it. If it's a guy named Bubba with $5 to his name that never finished 10th grade who just listened to some fringe radio show on the local a.m. radio dial telling what to think, he's either doing it to be an anti-intellect contrarian or religious fundie or both.
As they say in the X-files -

"I Want To Believe!"

Both concepts, religion and aliens, require a leap in faith to some degree. There are some that think every blinking light they see in the sky is an alien craft, and there are some that think every action in life no matter how mundane is an act of God. I take the middle ground.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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The thing with Roswell is that these super advanced aliens who travelled across our galaxy from some point, faster than the speed of light, only to crash here on earth. It just doesn't seem to add up.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
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Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
The thing with Roswell is that these super advanced aliens who travelled across our galaxy from some point, faster than the speed of light, only to crash here on earth. It just doesn't seem to add up.
makes perfect sense if they failed to convert the universal measure of distance (meters) into feet that exists in New Mexico.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
makes perfect sense if they failed to convert the universal measure of distance (meters) into feet that exists in New Mexico.
Or if they missed that left turn at Albuquerque.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
While I am a believer that some UFOs are truly craft piloted and/or sent by non-human intelligences from beyond planet Earth I have a hard time believing "they" would be lousy enough at flying to actually crash in New Mexico, then fail to recover their crashed comrades/technology before the US military several days later and allow the obviously hostile natives (it was common practice for the military to actually shoot at UFOs in those days) to keep their crashed flying saucer and the bodies of the alien pilots.
I see what you mean, but consider two things:

1.) We cannot assume that extraterrestrial visitors have anything in common with our motivations and technology. If something extraterrestrial crashed at Roswell --- and I grant you that remains a huge and unproven IF --- we really have no idea what it might have been. It may not have been the alien equivalent of a stealth aircraft so much as the alien equivalent of a drone or a paper airplane or a stray pet --- something they don't care enough to recover. Or it may be something for which we have absolutely no concept.

2.) Consider our own vulnerability. We have been to the moon. We have sent probes out of the solar system. We have genetic engineering, nuclear power, satellite communications, etc., etc., etc. Yet people still die every year from mosquito bites. Or accidentally electrocute themselves. Or die in car crashes. Despite all of our advanced aircraft tracking and military training, our aircraft still crash into each other occasionally. There is no reason to think that extraterrestrial civilizations might have similar weaknesses.
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,145 posts, read 20,409,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Or if they missed that left turn at Albuquerque.
Or were flying under the influence... another big New Mexico problem.

@Mark S.- Point taken, it's impossible to guess the motivations of a non-human mind. Still, you can extrapolate some things about them from 70+ years of UFO reports (with some difficulty as you never know 100% whether a UFO account is valid or not).

What I see is strong support that "they" can effortlessly flit in and out of our reality on a whim, are quite a bit smarter than us, have perception and movement abilities that are orders of magnitude higher/quicker than us, work in groups, are capable of manipulating/altering/erasing human memories and are completely immune to our weapons and the rigors of our earthly environment (above and below the water), not to mention space. We can certainly assume "they" are powerful enough to enslave or wipe humanity out without breaking a sweat if they wanted and that they seem to prefer to remain "behind the scenes" most of the time.

They just don't sound like the sort of folks who would accidentally "pull a Roswell". That's why I think that IF if was truly an extraterrestrial event, it would have to come from a less advanced source than from where most real UFOs hail, because the object:

#1 failed and crashed
#2 the crashed remains were out unattended in the desert for at least a couple days
#3 the US military had more than enough time to collect every last bit of the wreckage and take it away, where it is presumably still in their possession.

My best alien related guess for why? It could have been the alien equivalent of the robotic probes we send out all over the solar system. It could have been tens of thousands of years old... maybe the civilization that sent it is already extinct?

Still, a failed man-made experimental device seems even more likely.
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Old 07-08-2015, 05:45 PM
 
15,921 posts, read 18,339,151 times
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ROSWELL 4F: FABRICATIONS, FUMBLED FACTS, AND FABLES

Roswell 4F: Fabrications, Fumbled Facts, and Fables

The wayward journey of NYU project flight #4

The wayward journey of NYU project flight #4

Vultures in the desert

Vultures in the desert

I WANT TO BELIEVE, I HAVE TO BELIEVE

Last edited by plwhit; 07-08-2015 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Still, a failed man-made experimental device seems even more likely.
Yup. I agree with you that this is the most likely explanation. It was the height of the Cold War, and there were all sorts of "black book" projects going on. Everything was secret. Everyone was paranoid.

That said ...

Myself, I am convinced that there is something going on in our skies for which we don't yet have an explanation. Simply because I saw something I can't explain. I don't know what it was. I do know it behaved in a way that our understanding of physics and aerodynamics won't allow.

But as for Roswell, I have never seen any evidence that convinced me it was anything extraterrestrial.
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