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Old 08-31-2015, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
What would you need to convince you there was plant life on Mars?
Credible evidence.

As for the conspiracy/cover-up ... why? What would scientists gain by covering this up?

If life does exist or once existed on Mars, there are dozens of reasons for scientists to publish it. As for reasons to cover it up, I can't think of a single one with any credibility.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Life on the surface is extremely unlikely due to the loss of atmosphere leading to loss of protection from radiation. If there is life on Mars (including multicellular) it will be found underground, or in caves and lava tubes. You wouldn't find autotrophs dependent on photosynthesis underground because there's no light there. Autotrophs dependent on some other energy source are a different matter.

Something like the "living stones" of South Africa might be possible, which expose a well protected window to the sky to capture sunlight, but are otherwise underground. There's a good chance that life on Mars and Earth life would share common ancestry since we know the two planets have exchanged material via meteorites over billions of years.

Regarding photographic "evidence": the blueberries are well understood at this point as not being biological and have a terrestrial analog. Other pix reveal little more than evidence of paradolia, thogh there have been a couple that have made me wonder if they might be fossils. Without microscopic examination however it's impossible to say.

And for the record, I would put money on finding life on Mars ... Underground.
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Old 08-31-2015, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Vermont
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I don't need to be convinced. I don't have the scientific knowledge to evaluate the evidence.

There are, however, plenty of people who do. Those people are called scientists, and they are doing the best they can to collect and evaluate all the evidence available about conditions on Mars. Probably there will be manned missions in the future, and those missions will obtain more evidence, and gradually our knowledge and understanding of Mars will increase. Eventually it is likely that this question and many others will be answered.

Until that time, saying that you are convinced that plant life exists on Mars based on the available evidence is as foolish as saying that you know that there is no plant life on Mars.
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Old 08-31-2015, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I feel that there may be lichens and fungi and that SOME of the millions of 'blueberries' they have photographed on the ground may be round puffball-like fungi fruiting bodies with spores in them. I also have found images of small moss-like plants in images too.
You might "feel" that to be the case, but at the present time, there has been no evidence of such lifeforms. The "blueberries" do look pretty strange. These are known as hematite spherules. They are not unique to Mars. We have the same thing right here on Earth. They are hematite spherules and/or iron oxide concretions. Unfortunately, they are not "round puffball-like fungi fruiting bodies with spores in them." However, they are additional evidence that liquid water once existed on the surface of Mars.
Phoenix Mars Mission - Education - Mars 101 - Water on Mars
Earth Has Blueberries Too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo...de_concretions

Would you mind providing a reliable link that shows the "small moss-like plants" on Mars that you mentioned?
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Old 08-31-2015, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
...Of course, the scientists officially say there is no life on Mars but I would like to disagree with them.

The trouble with this belief is that I have no scientific training...
The fact that you don't have any scientific training allows you to come-up with conclusions that aren't based on scientific principles. For example, some people actually believe the "dark" side of the moon is always dark.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Some further speculation on my part: If life exists on Mars, it either evolved separately from Earth's life way back when the Martian environment was friendlier, or it arrived on meteorites from Earth in the same period. As Mars became more hostile, one would expect remaining life retreating underground, or maybe the bottoms of canyons like Valles Marinaris where conditions were better. The result would be islands of surviving life, that would adapt to the harsher conditions. Islands (including environments where there's isolation from genetic exchange with the outside) are hotbeds of evolutionary change. That's why Darwin found the Galapagos Islands such fertile ground for his investigations into natural selection. So one would expect a lot of diversity between these imaginary islands on Mars: the critters you'd find in an oasis near the equator will be different than the critters you'd find at the polar caps.

The economics of ecosystems will likely be the same no matter where life arises: you'll have autotrophs that depend on raw resources for energy, and over time critters will arise that eat the autotrophs for their needs (heterotrophs).They eat the carbon compounds produced by the fruit of the autotrophs' labors. Evolution then gets the great idea: why not heterotrophs that eat other heterotrophs? They're more energy rich, after all. Thus, carnivores arise. All these things are dying all the time, so other organisms arise to consume that which has died. Still others parasitize other organisms, or enter into mutually beneficial relationships with them (symbiosis). If there's a resource, life on Earth teaches us, someone's going to evolve to exploit it. You find these relationships around the black smokers on the forest floor, in the complex ecosystems in the soil, everywhere you find life. Even in a drop of water, or the microbial ecosystem in your gut. The economics of resources should be the same throughout the galaxy, so you'd expect plant, animal, fungal analogues as well as predators, parasites, and scavengers everywhere where life is found.

What you're not likely to find on Mars are fungi and lichens and exact duplicates of earthly organisms. If life is on Mars, it's been evolving on its own for a long long time -- since before there were such things as fungi and lichens on Earth. So you might have analogues to fungi and lichens (the latter being a symbiotic combination of a fungus and algae) ... but you won't find earthly fungi and lichens there. Or for that matter miniature bigfoots or crab monsters. It's likely Martian life if it exists will require whole new classification systems ... even if it's all microscopic.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: PRC
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I said I thought some of the 'blueberries' were fungi, not all of them are, but many that we see in images where they cover the ground are fungi in my opinion. I think the reason they are fungi and not concretions (hematitie or otherwise) is there is nowhere nearby where these concretions could have come from.

They are said to be eroded from rock they have been trapped in for millions of years, yet you would expect to see piles of them beneath rocks which have contained them. Weathering, espescially on Mars, is a very slow process as the wind is weak, but we see no piles of these concretions. We do however see them trapped in rocks and partially eroded out, but no piles. Isn't that strange? If they were fungal fruiting bodies trapped in mud millions of years ago and fossilised, you probably could not tell the difference just by looking at them in the images.

The wind is weak yet there are 'dust devils' and dust storms which blow for days on Mars. Where are the piles of concretions blown by the wind?

I challenge anyone to show me one image with piles of concretions in the lee of some rocks.

I think the reason they dont blow about is because they are either attached to their parent fungal plant or they are sticky and the wind is not strong enough to move them.

I will find the images of moss-like plant life and post it or link to it.
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Old 09-01-2015, 02:43 AM
 
Location: PRC
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So here is a link to the exploratorium site with an image showing a moss-like plant. There are a few up at the top left hand corner.

Here is a section of that image from the top left corner showing what I think is moss-like plants.

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Old 09-01-2015, 04:42 AM
 
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I would be convinced of plant life on Mars if scientists announced that they had found plant life on Mars.

Don't expect announcement any time soon though.

A) the radiation precludes plant life as we know it.

B) Too cold.

C) Any lif that is going to be found is going to be centered around the methane cycle. Scientists know what kind of life to expect--or preclude--by the atmosphere alone. Plant life as we know it is pretty much out of the equestion becasue it would output oxygen that we would detect.
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,168 posts, read 3,620,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
So here is a link to the exploratorium site with an image showing a moss-like plant. There are a few up at the top left hand corner.

Here is a section of that image from the top left corner showing what I think is moss-like plants.
Would it be rude to ask your education level, your level of experience with flora and fauna, your access to Mars and anything else pertinent to making a determination of whether there is life on Mars or not?

Also I asked some question earlier about some of the "absolute" comments you had made. Could you address those so that we can understand more.

Thank you.
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