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Old 03-15-2016, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
6,219 posts, read 5,937,672 times
Reputation: 12160

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I think perhaps you're misunderstanding my point, which is: Physics works the same across the cosmos (at least as far as we know). However, life evolved here on Earth with a mix of carbon, oxygen, and water. But that need not be the only way life can evolve in cosmos. Carbon need not be the only key ingredient of life.
There's a reason why there's a field called organic chemistry: the carbon atom has four valence electrons and can form more complex structures than other elements. That kind of complexity is necessary for the complex chemical interactions and information transmission (via DNA) that characterize living things. Silicon also has four valence electrons, and it's possible it could be the basis of some sort of life -- but the bonds are weaker, and in a silicon respiration cycle, the organisms would "breathe" out silicon dioxide -- or sand. So as far as we can determine, most life is likely to be carbon based wherever it occurs.

The other facet is solvents -- earthly life uses water as a solvent, but it's been suggested that on a planet like Titan you might have a chemical cycle dependent on liquid hydrocarbons as solvents rather than water. Researchers have even modeled a cell membrane that would work for living things in a liquid hydrocarbon solvent cycle. Contrary to what ocpaul seems to believe, researchers HAVE considered possibilities for very alien life. Scientists are NOT opposed to the possibility of very alien life -- though we have to work with what we know, or what we can extrapolate.

Here's an interesting summary of the possible alternatives astrobiologists have considered (including some very far-out possibilities indeed):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoth...f_biochemistry

Quote:
Give him the benefit of a watch before you judge. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.
Oh, I'm definitely looking forward to watching it, and will report back here when I have.
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
6,219 posts, read 5,937,672 times
Reputation: 12160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
You mean on Mars? Yeah, I know. If there is any life on Mars --- and at this point, it looks like the answer to that question is a resounding NO --- then it is microscopic in nature.
I personally wouldn't rule out the possibility of life on Mars; the interesting thing if it exists will be determining whether it's related to Earth-based life, or has independently evolved. The best evidence so far suggesting microbial life are the Viking experiment from the 1970s (it was dismissed soon after as probably being a perchlorate reaction but has been revisited in current years as a "maybe"), and the appearance of what appear to be wrinkles in microbial mats created when Spirit's air bags deflated. We don't know what they are, but they sure are suspicious.

I also wouldn't personally rule out the possibility of multicellular, mobile life (though nothing the size of a mouse). Where would I look for life remnants? Crevices and sheltered places at the bottom of the great valleys of Mars like Valles Marineris, and lava tube caves where they're sheltered from the elements and there may be sufficient atmosphere and moisture to sustain it. But both of these places will be very hard to get to safely, so unfortunately there probably won't be an answer in my lifetime.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:05 PM
 
Location: PRC
6,931 posts, read 6,864,193 times
Reputation: 6524
Quote:
Contrary to what ocpaul seems to believe, researchers HAVE considered possibilities for very alien life. Scientists are NOT opposed to the possibility of very alien life -- though we have to work with what we know, or what we can extrapolate.
Individually, and in private scientists may consider these things, but collectively and in public they are often unable to make statements which are against their employers agendas and which may bring a negative reaction against them.

A few erudite papers pushing the frontiers of possibility quickly get buried beneath the scientific blanket and will never see the light of day again until they are needed when alien life is finally admitted.

Compare this with the water on the Moon issue. Back in 1999 there were papers on this by scientists who could see the 'evidence' but until the main scientific body was ready to make the announcement, these papers were hardly brought out into the mainstream like a discovery of this kind should have been back then. If other scientists had taken what was proposed and run with it... well thats not going to happen is it?

If the organisation which is running the space program will not properly investigate the oddities which are found on this new world, then we cannot hope to have any announcement soon on any form of life. There is a huge backlog of secrecy which will need to be explained once a pronouncement is made, but I am sure they will find some convenient excuse such as National Security issues.

Of course, the people who have come to believe there is life on other space rocks probably dont need science to validate it for them,. It is only scientists who 'need' to give their stamp of approval and once that is done, it will allow the other people who will not allow themselves to believe without this approval, (many on here!) to join the march forward.
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,483,879 times
Reputation: 6336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Individually, and in private scientists may consider these things, but collectively and in public they are often unable to make statements which are against their employers agendas and which may bring a negative reaction against them.

A few erudite papers pushing the frontiers of possibility quickly get buried beneath the scientific blanket and will never see the light of day again until they are needed when alien life is finally admitted.

Compare this with the water on the Moon issue. Back in 1999 there were papers on this by scientists who could see the 'evidence' but until the main scientific body was ready to make the announcement, these papers were hardly brought out into the mainstream like a discovery of this kind should have been back then. If other scientists had taken what was proposed and run with it... well thats not going to happen is it?

If the organisation which is running the space program will not properly investigate the oddities which are found on this new world, then we cannot hope to have any announcement soon on any form of life. There is a huge backlog of secrecy which will need to be explained once a pronouncement is made, but I am sure they will find some convenient excuse such as National Security issues.

Of course, the people who have come to believe there is life on other space rocks probably dont need science to validate it for them,. It is only scientists who 'need' to give their stamp of approval and once that is done, it will allow the other people who will not allow themselves to believe without this approval, (many on here!) to join the march forward.
You are heavy on the accusations and light on the substantiation.

Despite what you say scientists are looking for different forms of life. I have posted links in the past to confirm this. Just because you choose to ignore things does not mean they do not exist.
Stephen Hawking on Non-Carbon-Based Alien Life

May 18, 2011



http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog...lien-life.html

Perhaps you can list your credentials. Stephen Hawkings are rather easy to find....
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
5,162 posts, read 4,483,879 times
Reputation: 6336
June 30, 2003




The Search for Life in the Universe



Reflections on the Scientific and Cultural Implications of Finding Life in the Cosmos

By Neil deGrasse Tyson


The Search for Life in the Universe -- NASA Astrobiology Magazine | NASA
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:54 AM
 
Location: US
243 posts, read 230,047 times
Reputation: 664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Bo Pepys View Post
There are many good reasons that the explanation of "flesh and blood aliens in nuts and bolts craft" does not fit the UFO phenomenon. The Extra Terrestrial Hypothesis is not dead within ufology, but it is on life support. One aspect of the UFO phenomenon is that it to some extent seems to feed us what we expect and want - big craft with flashing lights being one of those things. I've been a student of the UFO phenomenon since the early 1960's and had my one and only encounter (daylight disc, no lights) in 1971, and my position on the UFO phenomenon is, It's Not What It Appears to Be, It's Not What We Think It Is, and We Really Have No Idea What It Is.
I have to concur with you on that. I saw a daylight disk in 1967, at 200 yards and 80 ft. off the ground. No lights, no windows, no engine sound. What was it? Best guess, an unconventional manufactured craft in level flight at low altitude. I don't care to go further than that.
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