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Old 10-30-2016, 02:31 PM
 
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In a sense, yes, the out-of-body (OBE) state is a dream state with the exception that when a person is dreaming their physical body is alive, and their etheric OBE body (i.e., "astral body") is connected to their physical body by a metaphysical "umbilical" connection known as the "silver cord". When this silver cord is broken at death, and the astral body is freed from the physical body, death becomes permanent; thereby making it impossible for the person to be resuscitated.

But only in life are dreams unreal and difficult to remember. In a metaphysical sense, life is more of a dream than the afterlife. According to those who have had an NDE,
death is more like waking up from a dream -- and relatively short dream at that -- which began before physical existence. Some NDErs have gone so far as saying that physical existence is real the state of death, and metaphysical existence is the real state of life. One NDEr told me that you will never be more dead than you are right now. Dr. Dianne Morrissey, put it more eloquently:

"If I lived a billion years more, in my body or yours, there's not a single experience on Earth that could ever be as good as being dead. Nothing."

So, yes, life is very much like the old nursery rhyme, "Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream." Or the Chinese proverb: "Life is a dream walking. Death is going home." Or the Hindu Bhagavad Gita: "Never the spirit was born, the spirit shall cease to be never. Never was time it was not, end and beginning are dreams." Or as Nathaniel Hawthorne once said, "We sometimes congratulate ourselves at the moment of waking from a troubled dream; it may be so the moment after death." Or as the famous psychologist and NDEr, Carl G. Jung, put it, "Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." Or like Morpheus in the movie "The Matrix", "Have you ever had a [lucid] dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"

Last edited by neardeath; 10-30-2016 at 02:43 PM..

 
Old 10-30-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,739 posts, read 70,579,935 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neardeath View Post
In a sense, yes, the out-of-body (OBE) state is a dream state with the exception that when a person is dreaming their physical body is alive, and their etheric OBE body (i.e., "astral body") is connected to their physical body by a metaphysical "umbilical" connection known as the "silver cord". When this silver cord is broken at death, and the astral body is freed from the physical body, death becomes permanent; thereby making it impossible for the person to be resuscitated.
"
Wait, so all those people who have NDE's and are resuscitated have an intact silver cord? It never got severed?
 
Old 10-31-2016, 12:03 PM
 
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Yes, the silver cord of all NDErs are intact and unsevered during their NDE. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to have been returned and been revived. However, in many cases their silver cord was stretched to the point of almost breaking. This is why in such cases these NDErs return to their physical body very rapidly like stretching a rubber band then suddenly letting go of one end of it. This phenomenon of NDErs "snapping" back into their body is a frequent occurance. The silver cord acts much like the umbilical cord connecting a baby to its mother. The connection of both are necessary for physical survival.
 
Old 10-31-2016, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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There is no reliable evidence one way or the other. It's all a matter of where you put your trust -- whether you subscribe to one of the major religion's belief systems, subscribe to the New Age beliefs above, or subscribe to the hard materialist notion that we're just worm food when we die. It is always, as Kierkegaard said, a leap of faith. Those who think they've "proven" their belief systems are fooling themselves.
 
Old 10-31-2016, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Those who think they've "proven" their belief systems are fooling themselves.
Yep. And that includes the scientific materialists. All of knowledge eventually comes down to faith.
 
Old 11-01-2016, 10:38 AM
 
11,251 posts, read 11,267,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neardeath View Post
Yes, the silver cord of all NDErs are intact and unsevered during their NDE. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to have been returned and been revived. However, in many cases their silver cord was stretched to the point of almost breaking. This is why in such cases these NDErs return to their physical body very rapidly like stretching a rubber band then suddenly letting go of one end of it. This phenomenon of NDErs "snapping" back into their body is a frequent occurance. The silver cord acts much like the umbilical cord connecting a baby to its mother. The connection of both are necessary for physical survival.
neardeath, you seem to know a lot about this. If you can please tell me why a NDE'er is often given a choice to stay or go back and when they choose to stay the God-figure tells them they have to return anyway. Why offer a choice when the decision to send a person back is already made?

Also why does God give a person a near death experience just to tell them they have to return? It's like God made a mistake nearly killing them and is correcting his mistake by sending the person back. I have also read of multiple NDE's in a single event when the person died, got sent back, then died again and got send back again and then died yet a third time and got send back back yet again. It's like God or whoever is managing all this has no control over the proceedings i.e. God can't keep the person's body from dying over and over.
 
Old 11-01-2016, 11:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neardeath View Post
**thrillobyte wrote**

Re NDE's what puzzles me about them is how some float to the top of the ceiling, then go down the hospital hall and see loved ones grieving, then go out the door and fly around some more to nearby locations, like George Ritchie who flew some 500 miles across Texas to Louisiana and stopped in a small town in front of a diner. He says has he stood on the sidewalk asking people who walked by where he was and they ignored him, obviously because they couldn't see him. It was when he put his hand through a telephone anchor wire that he realized something was amiss.

But then there are others who say they immediately go flying down a dark tunnel with the characteristic light at the end.

So why does one hang around while another goes down the tunnel? Some don't even experience a tunnel; they walk through a door into a beautiful garden. There are countless other versions of this sequence. It's no wonder skeptics say it's all just a dying brain triggering hallucinations because each person has a totally different version. If this is all controlled by God why is He giving each person a completely different way of getting to the afterlife? Why does He allow some souls to hang around earth forever as earthbound spirits and others He immediately sucks into the vortex?

I'm trying to find some coherence to all of this and I cannot find a single common pattern. It all seems so haphazard.

**neardeath's reply**


The answer to your questions are very simple for those who have been involved in NDE studies and research for decades such as I. Concerning your assumption that advocates of the Afterlife Hypothesis believe all is controlled by God is a false assumption. We advocate "free will" while it is skeptics who deny it. Concerning differences in NDEs, there are many reasons why NDEs are different.

Concerning the hallucination theory of NDEs, major NDE studies have provided cases of verified or "veridical" out-of-body perception of events heard and seen by NDErs which were verified later by third patrites. Such cases provide strong evidence that out-of-body conscious perception can occur while the physical body is in a state of clinical death or during signs of brain death. This evidence falsifies the hallucination theory of NDEs. My article on Reddit also falsifies it.

Concerning out-of-body travel, the evidence from NDE testimonials reveals that the out-of-body state is one where travel is mediated by out-of-body perceptual thought processes not involving the clinically dead brain. Out-of-body travel, being a hyper-mental phenomenon, is similar to that perceived in dreams. Travel from one point to another may be instantaneous, or may be experienced by flying like a bird (as in George Ritchie's case), or normally as in walking (such cases usually occur when the NDEr isn't yet aware they are out-of-body), or walking through walls, floating at the ceiling, moving throught tunnels, etc.

Out-of-body communication is mediated though telepathy: direct mind-to-mind-transfer. There is no need for lips to move or ears to hear. Whatever a person thinks and feels is immediately known to everyone around them. This can be a heaven or a hell depending upon the person doing the thinking and feeling.

Out-of-body visual perception is 360 degree panoramic vision and is not bound by time. It is able to see both in Earth's future and past.

The out-of-body consciousness expands and is timeless, boundless, and limitless in its capacity for knowledge. Many of those who have experienced out-of-body consciousness have received knowledge they once knew before they were born (proving their own pre-existence) in the form of forgotten knowlewdge.

So, the answer to your question is that the out-of-body realm is purely a mental realm. Reality is all in your mind. It is a realm where thoughts are deeds; and where you are what you think.


those who have been involved in NDE studies and research for decades such as I.


Well, we're very fortunate to have you chiming in since most of us are greenhorns on this topic.

I am one who is trying desperately to believe in an afterlife and previously as a young dumb cluck Christian I did believe in it. And then I lost Christianity because of all the lies involved with it and became a deist, but I still have trouble grasping this idea that there is something that is just so indescribably wonderful beyond this hellhole down here. My rationalization of late is "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

When you study all the diseases we get, the untold sufferings they inflict, the natural disasters, the ravages of war, etc. it all just seems so arbitrary, like the belief in an afterlife was invented to give comfort to most of us who have to endure this calamitous existence.

The most difficult thing I find to believe in is that things over there are as good as they are bad here, to wit: we're ugly and unattractive down here; we're beautiful and glamorous up there. We're alone and unloved down here; we're loved beyond measure up there; we couldn't get a companion down here that we were happy with; we get the boy/girl of our dreams for eternity up there (at least according to Swedenborg). We lived in miserable conditions down here; we live in the most opulent conditions imaginable up there. We have no control over our circumstances down here; we only have to think something i.e. "I want to appear as a teenager again" and boom our mind power instantly makes us appear 18 again up there. We want to go to London we have to hop a plane down here; we think of a place in furthest reaches of space and boom, instantly we are there up there.

It all just sounds to good to be true. What are your thoughts on all this as someone who has studied the topic for decades?
 
Old 11-01-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,735 posts, read 9,848,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I'm trying to find some coherence to all of this and I cannot find a single common pattern. It all seems so haphazard.
That is to be expected.
If you stop and think, as a discarnate consciousness of pure thought, whatever you 'think' occupies all your awareness.
This may explain why Eastern mystics place so much emphasis on "controlling thoughts" and stilling the "internal chatter." If you couldn't control your thoughts while in body, why expect things to change out-of-the-body?
Your preconceived notions also filter what you perceive and how you interpret it.

In the other realm, there is no sequential time, only an eternal now, so that moving from one awareness, location, place, etc, is immeasurable.
And there's no assurance any knowledge or information will accurately pass across the barrier.

Consider the situation where a modern computer chip engineer tries to explain the fabrication and operation of a self aligning polysilicon gate on a diffusion layer MOSFET of a central processing unit in a personal computer to a shepherd in 1202 B.C. . . .without a common language - just images and emotions.
 
Old 11-01-2016, 09:17 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,739 posts, read 70,579,935 times
Reputation: 76715
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Well, we're very fortunate to have you chiming in since most of us are greenhorns on this topic.

I am one who is trying desperately to believe in an afterlife and previously as a young dumb cluck Christian I did believe in it. And then I lost Christianity because of all the lies involved with it and became a deist, but I still have trouble grasping this idea that there is something that is just so indescribably wonderful beyond this hellhole down here. My rationalization of late is "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

When you study all the diseases we get, the untold sufferings they inflict, the natural disasters, the ravages of war, etc. it all just seems so arbitrary, like the belief in an afterlife was invented to give comfort to most of us who have to endure this calamitous existence.

The most difficult thing I find to believe in is that things over there are as good as they are bad here, to wit: we're ugly and unattractive down here; we're beautiful and glamorous up there. We're alone and unloved down here; we're loved beyond measure up there; we couldn't get a companion down here that we were happy with; we get the boy/girl of our dreams for eternity up there (at least according to Swedenborg). We lived in miserable conditions down here; we live in the most opulent conditions imaginable up there. We have no control over our circumstances down here; we only have to think something i.e. "I want to appear as a teenager again" and boom our mind power instantly makes us appear 18 again up there. We want to go to London we have to hop a plane down here; we think of a place in furthest reaches of space and boom, instantly we are there up there.

It all just sounds to good to be true. What are your thoughts on all this as someone who has studied the topic for decades?
What's a good book to read on Swedenborg?
 
Old 11-01-2016, 11:46 PM
 
11,251 posts, read 11,267,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What's a good book to read on Swedenborg?
"Heaven and Hell" is his most popular though it is not for the faint of heart (not scary or anything, just very dense reading) If you have pdf here's a link. There used to be a condensed version available but that seems to have been taken off the Swedenborg Foundations website:

http://www.swedenborg.com/wp-content...n_and_hell.pdf
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