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Old 10-06-2016, 04:28 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
No, I'm not implying, they're as real as this discussion we're having. One of them from two years ago Halloween nite, completely unexpected. Sometimes, you get more by accident than searching. One from a Connecticut cemetary, a women in long dress holding a baby. A women I know, lives in close vicinity to a battlefield, she thought she had a peeping tom....until she realized what she was really dealing with. Shes a hospice nurse, bc of this I think she may attract them.
This reminds me of a recent thread here, where someone posted links to experiences cops have had, and another link to a website where nurses talk about their experiences with visitations by deceased former patients. There are some really good stories, there. After reading some of those reports, you might have all the "proof" you need, OP. It's all on the thread "Want to get the pants scared off you?"

 
Old 10-06-2016, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I've been researching this stuff for 3 years now--afterlife, NDE's, deathbed visions, spirits, OBE's, ghost boxes--the whole nine yards and I've yet to come across a piece of evidence that is 100% reliable. Is there any?
Wait until about midnight on a nice clear night, go outside and look up. If you don't think there is a creator/God nothing will convince you.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 09:42 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,885,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Good question; I'd love to have the answer. If myself and plenty of others didn't have
photographic evidence I'd agree its impossible.
Great! Post up the photos -- we'd love to see them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Wait until about midnight on a nice clear night, go outside and look up. If you don't think there is a creator/God nothing will convince you.
There are excellent explanations for the existence of stars that don't require invoking a god. I think nature is beautiful and majestic, but I think the scientific account of its formation makes it even more beautiful.

I disagree with your main point, though: I could be convinced that a god exists. A beautiful night sky wouldn't do it, though. It would take a well-reasoned solution to the numerous philosophical arguments against god's existence and an at least moderately-compelling argument in favor of his existence.

[quote=ocpaul20;45727096]All we are doing is our brain interpreting the senses our body gives us. So, why not interpret the energy of ghosts in a visual way? It does not have to be light-reflective it can be some other type of energy but light.

Our eyes are only capable of seeing light, that's why. If you are claiming you can see ghosts, you are claiming that light is reflecting off of the ghosts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I think we have to start our search for all these things in the idea that we are energy, we have an energy body and from there go towards multi-dimensions and somehow being able to travel in those. Our brain or mind is a radio receiver for energy of different sorts and we interpret this energy as sight sound, feelings etc. Science is almost ready to embrace the idea that everything is energy vibrating at different rates which make things physical or not. In a few years science will probably be able to come out and teach it in schools hopefully.
This quote is full of hogwash.

First, The bold section is completely false. Science, by definition, only deals with the physical world. No scientist in the world thinks there is a non-physical world that is made up of vibrating energy.

Second, energy is physical!

Third, you are assuming the conclusion from the beginning. There is zero evidence that anything other than the physical world exists, and there is zero evidence that we can travel through multiple dimensions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The energy body/energy beings idea can be very persuasive if you look at energy medicine such as chinese acupuncture and traditional Chinese Medicine (taking the pulses of the body, 12 energy meridians etc). Also tales from tibetan and indian monks/masters and various shaman training across the world, nurses, doctors, emergency crews. They all have tales of something which can or appears to move outside our physical body. Fantastic creatures, missing time, alien abductions taking people through windows and walls, all suggest the multi-dimensional and energetic nature of our world.
Acupuncture is pseudoscience. It has been studied extensively, and it has been discredited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Many different threads coming together if only we care to 'see' rather than dismiss.
Yes, I'm quite certain that we can believe all sorts of nonsense if we really, really want to. But why would we want to? Why not just go where the evidence leads us?
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:07 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,515 posts, read 70,430,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post


This quote is full of hogwash.

First, The bold section is completely false. Science, by definition, only deals with the physical world. No scientist in the world thinks there is a non-physical world that is made up of vibrating energy.

Second, energy is physical!

Third, you are assuming the conclusion from the beginning. There is zero evidence that anything other than the physical world exists, and there is zero evidence that we can travel through multiple dimensions.



Acupuncture is pseudoscience. It has been studied extensively, and it has been discredited.
Acupuncture is not pseudoscience. Acupuncture works with the electrical aspects of the body. Medical Doctors can train to practice Medical Acupuncture (somewhat different from Oriental Medicine), and all insurance systems cover that without limits, like regular doctor appointments. Some don't recognize Oriental Medicine, or only cover it on a limited basis, but Medical Acupuncture is accepted medical science and is covered by insurance like any other medical technique. Medical Acupuncture was developed relatively recently in France and Germany, not Asia.

I think when paul says "the physical world" he probably means the "material" world, i.e. matter vs. energy. As you know, matter is just a form of energy, perhaps dense energy, vs. people in so-called spirit form, who are said to be some kind of more subtle energy. Energy is a foundation of life and the universe. Science is increasing its ability to detect and study ever more subtle forms of energy. Stay tuned for further developments. Enjoy the ride.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:18 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,515 posts, read 70,430,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post


Yes, I'm quite certain that we can believe all sorts of nonsense if we really, really want to. But why would we want to? Why not just go where the evidence leads us?
How do you think evidence gets generated? Someone has to lead the search, the scientific inquiry. Someone has to formulate a question to be answered, conceptualize and carry out a study, and record the results. Evidence springs from people's active imagination and controlled inquiry; someone has to create it.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:59 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,885,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Acupuncture is not pseudoscience. Acupuncture works with the electrical aspects of the body. Medical Doctors can train to practice Medical Acupuncture (somewhat different from Oriental Medicine), and all insurance systems cover that without limits, like regular doctor appointments. Some don't recognize Oriental Medicine, or only cover it on a limited basis, but Medical Acupuncture is accepted medical science and is covered by insurance like any other medical technique. Medical Acupuncture was developed relatively recently in France and Germany, not Asia.

I think when paul says "the physical world" he probably means the "material" world, i.e. matter vs. energy. As you know, matter is just a form of energy, perhaps dense energy, vs. people in so-called spirit form, who are said to be some kind of more subtle energy. Energy is a foundation of life and the universe. Science is increasing its ability to detect and study ever more subtle forms of energy. Stay tuned for further developments. Enjoy the ride.
Insurance covering acupuncture is a product of the laws of our country. Insurance also covers chiropractic care, but that doesn't mean chiropractic care isn't mostly pseudoscience as well. The issue of insurance coverage and alternative medicine is a legal one, not a medical one.

You are incorrect about any sort of acupuncture being accepted medical practice. Study after study has shown that acupuncture cannot produce results above and beyond a placebo effect. Researchers have actually found that "sham" acupuncture, which is the practice of not even putting needs into the body, produces the same results as actual acupuncture. This shouldn't be surprising -- acupuncture is based on the concept of Qi, but Qi is entirely made up. Thus, we shouldn't expect acupuncture to be effective.

Matter and energy are very much related in physics. Einstein's famous equation, E=MC^2, describes the equivalency relationship between matter and energy. None of that implies that humans have some mystical, "energy" existence that is apart from our material bodies. We are not merely energy inhabiting a material body.

The entire field of physics has been studying energy in many forms for centuries, but that has nothing to do with ghosts, unexplained phenomenon such as spirits, etc. Human existence is entirely dependent upon the physical, material structure of our bodies. If that changes, we change. If that changes enough, our physical, life-producing processes stop, and that is the end of the road for us.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 11:00 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,885,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
How do you think evidence gets generated? Someone has to lead the search, the scientific inquiry. Someone has to formulate a question to be answered, conceptualize and carry out a study, and record the results. Evidence springs from people's active imagination and controlled inquiry; someone has to create it.
I'm not dismissing the importance of asking questions. That is not the same thing as wanting to believe something for which there is no evidence.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 11:52 PM
 
11,225 posts, read 11,251,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This reminds me of a recent thread here, where someone posted links to experiences cops have had, and another link to a website where nurses talk about their experiences with visitations by deceased former patients. There are some really good stories, there. After reading some of those reports, you might have all the "proof" you need, OP. It's all on the thread "Want to get the pants scared off you?"
Yeah, I'd like to get the pants scared off me, Ruth. Do you have a link? It's might not be a pretty sight, however so I advise you to look the other way when the pants come off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Wait until about midnight on a nice clear night, go outside and look up. If you don't think there is a creator/God nothing will convince you.
Hmm... I don't recall ever mentioning I was atheist. All I said was I think the stuff about NDE's, spirits and the supernatural might not be real. There's a world of difference between believing in a God and not believing anything happens to us after death. The two can be mutually exclusive. There can be a God who doesn't grant any afterlife. He just put us here to live out our lives and then...pouf!
 
Old 10-07-2016, 02:11 AM
 
997 posts, read 577,853 times
Reputation: 2290
It is something you pretty much have to see for yourself.

The way things really work isn't how we think, or how many of the stories go. There are things we are unable to comprehend so we get stories and experiences.

Personally, I have guides and they have proven to me that they are real. That is the only thing I know for sure. We do have guidance, whether that is God or Higher Self or a lowly Guide, whatever you experience is fine because there is flexibility and you will be shown what it is appropriate for you to see. Interpretation is a different story.

You know what you experience, and you know that it is something you could not possibly do, or know ahead of time. Even if you have communication with your guidance that doesn't prove anything except there is something or someone who meddles.

I try to keep it simple and I don't ask for answers about how the universe works because the answer is "You will never know" That is why it is so hard to prove scientifically. We aren't supposed to know, but we get understanding and experiences and teachings but not hard evidence, though quantum physics and string theory does show evidence of things being possible that were thought to be science fiction.

If I was looking for proof, that is where I would look.

If you want an experience, that is easy to make happen. I work with that kind of stuff all the time but never with the spirits of those who once were alive. I am not allowed to venture into that realm.

If a medium were to read me, they would only see my guides, not my departed loved ones. This is how it is for me because I am banned from that experience. There is a good reason for it. I might get a message, but it will be from guidance and not from the consciousness of a departed soul.

My guides were kind enough to show me proof that they are not figments of my imagination. I am not smart enough to make that stuff up. They know everything about everything but they won't tell me much, just a bit, but that bit is years of training. I am also very careful to take everything with a grain of salt, and not jump to conclusions about anything. I tend to believe in certain common topics and disbelieve others. Even if I disagree with theory, I never disagree with what a person experiences.

I do know that people have unique experiences that are very real to them. They may be shown or taught something that is relevant to their own storyline, but is not usually a universal truth. Concluding what the experience means is what causes disagreements because they prove nothing. They only prove that things happen that can't be explained. The very existence of the 'impossible' proves that there are possibles, or maybe that we don't know everything there is to know.

It is ok to say "We don't know"........We can gather clues and theorize but proof is illusive for a reason.

Last edited by Veronicka; 10-07-2016 at 02:22 AM..
 
Old 10-07-2016, 04:14 AM
 
1,294 posts, read 1,415,308 times
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As a believer in the afterlife let me play devils advocate. Having an NDE doesn't necessarily prove that there is an afterlife. The "white light", "tunnel" or other visions can easily be explained away as a dream your having while unconscious. Having an NDE where your out of your body and observing others also does not necessarily prove an afterlife. It merely proves something supernatural and/or something that science doesn't have an explanation for in the present is occurring.

However, I think a verifiable out of body NDE is one of the strongest pieces of evidence that souls exists. And the soul is a pretty strong piece of supporting evidence for an afterlife. I'm quite surprised that you haven't found evidence you consider concrete in 3 years. I have researched this in the past and found quite a few NDE's that logically have to be considered genuine.

I think one of the best evidences of a genuine NDE with an out of body experience is one where the person can describe an event that happened while he was "dead." Basically something that would be impossible for him to see using his physical body since the body was clinically dead. I think this type of evidence is the closest we will come to 100% confirming that NDE's are real. Here is one example of that:

Scientific Evidence Supporting Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Quote:
Dr. Bruce Greyson documented perhaps one of the most compelling examples of a person who had an NDE and observed events while outside of his body which were later verified by others. The only way that these events could have been observed by the experiencer was if in fact he was outside of his body. Al Sullivan was a 55 year old truck driver who was undergoing triple by-pass surgery in 1988 when he had a powerful NDE including an encounter with his deceased mother and brother-in-law, who told Al to go back to tell one of his neighbors their son with lymphoma will live. Furthermore, during the NDE, Sullivan accurately noticed the surgeon, Dr. Hiroyoshi Takata, operating on him was "flapping his arms as if trying to fly" with his hands in his armpits. When he came back to his body after the surgery was over, Sullivan's cariologist was startled that Sullivan could describe Dr. Takata's habit of arm flapping. It was Dr. Takata's idiosyncratic method of keeping his hands sterile and pointing out to surgical instruments and giving instructions to surgical staff.
Now getting that objective and rational explanation out of the way; I believe in the afterlife for some of the reasons others have stated. There are just far too many unusual/supernatural events that have occurred throughout human history that we still have no scientific explanation for. How is it that men have figured out how to send a spaceship millions of miles away to Mars but can't explain why we have supernatural occurrences that there are no scientific explanations for?? Sometimes the simplest explanation that the events are supernatural is correct for certain situations. This is because some events are bigger then men and no matter how long humans are on this planet these events will always elude the explanation of science. Here is an example of one such event:

The exorcisms of Latoya Ammons

Note: If you dont have time to read the above story let me give you the 5 second version. This woman and her children lived in a house where many supernatural events (haunting) occurred. Many of these events were witnessed by unbiased third parties (who were sent to DISPROVE the events as a hoax) such as a high ranking police officer, CPS worker and many others (read the story for all the witnesses).
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