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Old 01-15-2017, 09:20 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,100 posts, read 466,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
dinosaur carving in cambodian temple - Bing images





pictures of stegosaurus - Bing images


skeleton of stegosaurus - Bing images


skeleton of stegosaurus - Bing images



If the Cambodian temple carving is supposed to be a representation of a Stegosaurus, it's not a very accurate representation at all unless it was carved by a six year old child. Notice the difference in the head in the carving with that of the actual size and shape of the head of a Stegosaurus. There is no similarity at all. And what are those horn like protrusions on the head in the carving? Furthermore, the shape of the 'plates' in the carving are not the shape of the plates on a Stegosaurus.
Are we going for a better rendition that can be carved in stone type of critique?

Those that have pointed out the "so called horns" in trying to convey that it is a rhino, will not accept the fact that I see a neckline being carved here, so naturally the head does not look right when it is depicting the Stegosaurus as lowering its head in eating.

Quote:
If dinosaurs, specifically, the Stegosaurus had survived into the 12th century A.D. when I think that carving was supposed to have been made, there would have had to have been a large enough population base to keep the species from dying out. In that case there should be evidence of that. Thus far, no such evidence has been found.
Given the Biblical account, animals were not afraid of man until after the Global flood; that means it was after the flood when some animals became predators and man hunted animals for meat instead of gathering herbs for their meat; which possibly was done because those herbs became extinct mayhap to be their source of protein any more.

Reference for where meat came from before the flood.

Genesis 1:29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Reference for where meat was to be provided for man after the flood.

Genesis 9:22 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

I know many will point to the shapes of animals' teeth that they can be nothing but predators, but gorillas have sharp teeth and although they do kill animals for meat on rare occasions, their primary diet are vegetation. And the fact that the Bible prophesied how one day in the future under the King of kings rule, the wolf will dwell with the lamb and the lion will eat hay like an ox should give every christian believer pause about the evolution timetable, let alone the evolution theory to consider it to be true at all.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

Quote:
The evidence is that dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years ago due either to the Chicxulub asteroid impact which occurred 65 million years ago, or to a combination of factors in which the Chicxulub asteroid may have simply been the last straw in a chain of events such as massive volcanic activity which would have caused climatic changes, and diseases which may have been killing off the dinosaurs even prior to the asteroid impact. Scientists really aren't sure of the exact cause of the extinction of the dinosaurs. But the geological evidence is that they did become extinct many millions of years ago.
Geological evidence cannot be confirmed past human history when they have errant dating results within human history. All you have stated in your quote is pure speculation given in respect to the evolution theory on the basis that it is true when nothing has been observed nor proven to be true regarding macroevolution.

BUT we can observe physical evidence that man has seen the dinosaurs that was supposedly wiped out millions of years before man came unto the scene, and thus should render the evolution timetable as circumspect in having any basis in reality as a guideline at all, but evolutionists will continue with blinders on, because our government favors giving grants to scientists that seek to prove the evolution theory.

We can take a page out of the evolution theory method and theorize that because no one can confirm human history but the Bible......

Job 40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

That is a living dinosaur that God is telling Job about in having been made with man as in Adam. No creature; not a hippo nor an elephant has a tail that is as long as a cedar which is a tree.

This denial of the physical evidence of the Bible testifying to a dinosaur having been created with man and still alive is something you need to reconsider since you are a believer. So do ask Him for help, but as it is, I believe His words over the ever changing words of men in a false science that is the evolution theory that can never be observed nor proven to be true.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:49 AM
 
676 posts, read 374,187 times
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What's the point? You can't argue with someone who "believes". The argument goes nowhere if one believes in talking snakes and Satan. It's just futile.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:27 AM
 
1,538 posts, read 684,397 times
Reputation: 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by octo View Post
What's the point? You can't argue with someone who "believes". The argument goes nowhere if one believes in talking snakes and Satan. It's just futile.
Yes... to some extent. But I believe people like the OP have a purpose in life. They are there to remind us of the importance of a good education.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:20 AM
 
Location: St Paul's Bay, Malta
10,814 posts, read 4,867,112 times
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:27 AM
 
18,138 posts, read 13,868,011 times
Reputation: 5942
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorInSpirit View Post
Are we going for a better rendition that can be carved in stone type of critique?

Those that have pointed out the "so called horns" in trying to convey that it is a rhino, will not accept the fact that I see a neckline being carved here, so naturally the head does not look right when it is depicting the Stegosaurus as lowering its head in eating.
A Rhino's horn is on its nose. Not on the side of the head. Quite apart from what you think you see, the head on the carving bears no resemblance at all to the head of a Stegosaurus. It is far to massive and has the wrong shape.

Quote:
Given the Biblical account, animals were not afraid of man until after the Global flood; that means it was after the flood when some animals became predators and man hunted animals for meat instead of gathering herbs for their meat; which possibly was done because those herbs became extinct mayhap to be their source of protein any more.

Reference for where meat came from before the flood.

Genesis 1:29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Reference for where meat was to be provided for man after the flood.

Genesis 9:22 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

I know many will point to the shapes of animals' teeth that they can be nothing but predators, but gorillas have sharp teeth and although they do kill animals for meat on rare occasions, their primary diet are vegetation. And the fact that the Bible prophesied how one day in the future under the King of kings rule, the wolf will dwell with the lamb and the lion will eat hay like an ox should give every christian believer pause about the evolution timetable, let alone the evolution theory to consider it to be true at all.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.



Geological evidence cannot be confirmed past human history when they have errant dating results within human history. All you have stated in your quote is pure speculation given in respect to the evolution theory on the basis that it is true when nothing has been observed nor proven to be true regarding macroevolution.

BUT we can observe physical evidence that man has seen the dinosaurs that was supposedly wiped out millions of years before man came unto the scene, and thus should render the evolution timetable as circumspect in having any basis in reality as a guideline at all, but evolutionists will continue with blinders on, because our government favors giving grants to scientists that seek to prove the evolution theory.

We can take a page out of the evolution theory method and theorize that because no one can confirm human history but the Bible......

Job 40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

That is a living dinosaur that God is telling Job about in having been made with man as in Adam. No creature; not a hippo nor an elephant has a tail that is as long as a cedar which is a tree.

This denial of the physical evidence of the Bible testifying to a dinosaur having been created with man and still alive is something you need to reconsider since you are a believer. So do ask Him for help, but as it is, I believe His words over the ever changing words of men in a false science that is the evolution theory that can never be observed nor proven to be true.
PIS, many Bible commentators have commented on Job 40:15-24 without taking the animal that is described as being a dinosaur. The passage does not say that 'Behemoth' has a tail like a cedar as if referring to a massive tail. It says that he moves or bends his tail like a cedar. This is poetic and could simply be referring to the animal's tail moving in a way that resembles the branches of a cedar tree bending and swaying in the wind. This could very easily be referring to a hippo or an elephant.

The Bible simply does not state that the earth is young. Genesis 1:1, properly understood allows for a very old earth. And the earth is in fact very, very old. The Geological evidence of that fact is simply unavoidable regardless of your appeal to errant dating results.

Now there is a possibility that someone made that Cambodian temple carving based on fossil remains and wasn't particularly concerned with anatomical accuracy, but no way, no where, no how did a live Stegosaurus pose for the carving.

If dinosaurs existed into the 12th century A.D. then there should be many skeletal remains with viable DNA (hello Jurassic Park), but no such remains have ever been found. And if the Stegosaurus survived into recent human times, why not other species of dinosaurs which also would have been pictured in carvings or paintings? Where are they?

Yes, I am a believer. But I have never been a young earth creationist, and I have never ignored the geological evidence for the age of the earth. Nor do I ignore the evidence that dinosaurs died out some 65 million years ago.

Young earth creationism is just plain silly.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:21 PM
 
4,705 posts, read 7,212,234 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! View Post
OP is trolling right? Seriously?
I don't think the OP is trolling, but rather that the OP is convinced that the Ta Prohm carving represents a dinosaur that somehow survived into relatively recent times (albeit about 800 years ago), the thinking being that not all of the large dinosaurs became extinct some 65 million years ago.
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Old 01-15-2017, 05:26 PM
 
4,290 posts, read 5,818,158 times
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Birds ARE dinosaurs in the scientific sense, or rather their direct descendants. Birds evolved from a particular strand of dinosaurs prior to the mass-extinction event and some of these survived the event. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_birds
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Old 01-16-2017, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,712 posts, read 3,695,570 times
Reputation: 2692
Alligators and Crocodiles are about as close to "dinosaurs" living today as we are going to get. They have existed almost unchanged for the last 100 million years, the only change being smaller than their ancestor.
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Old 01-16-2017, 04:31 PM
 
4,705 posts, read 7,212,234 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
Alligators and Crocodiles are about as close to "dinosaurs" living today as we are going to get. They have existed almost unchanged for the last 100 million years, the only change being smaller than their ancestor.
For the sake of clarifying a little more, although crocodilians did indeed outlast the dinosaurs, crocodilians are not dinosaurs. The only link is that crocs and dinos shared a common ancestor, the Thecodonts. One branch is that of the crocodilians. Another branch led to early dinosaurs one of which led to the Ornithischians, and a sub-branch from which evolved Saurischians and birds. The Saurischians became extinct, and the Birds survived and continued to evolve to this day. Crocodilians also evolved into about 25 different species today.

What can also be said, is that crocodiles survived and dinosaurs did not. Keep in mind that crocodiles, alligators, caimans, etc., are cold-blooded creatures. However dinosaurs are thought to have features that are characteristic of warm-blooded creatures. Crocodilians, dinosaurs, birds and thecodonts are related by a common thecodont ancestor and combined together are called archosaurs.

In the link below, scroll down to 45.5 "The Triassic: Origin of Dinosaurs" for an simplified graph and info. It's a good link that doesn't get too bogged down with technical jargon.
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/genbio/ra...hancement.html
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Old 01-16-2017, 05:34 PM
 
2,185 posts, read 1,382,897 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
For the sake of clarifying a little more, although crocodilians did indeed outlast the dinosaurs, crocodilians are not dinosaurs. The only link is that crocs and dinos shared a common ancestor, the Thecodonts. One branch is that of the crocodilians. Another branch led to early dinosaurs one of which led to the Ornithischians, and a sub-branch from which evolved Saurischians and birds. The Saurischians became extinct, and the Birds survived and continued to evolve to this day. Crocodilians also evolved into about 25 different species today.

What can also be said, is that crocodiles survived and dinosaurs did not. Keep in mind that crocodiles, alligators, caimans, etc., are cold-blooded creatures. However dinosaurs are thought to have features that are characteristic of warm-blooded creatures. Crocodilians, dinosaurs, birds and thecodonts are related by a common thecodont ancestor and combined together are called archosaurs.

In the link below, scroll down to 45.5 "The Triassic: Origin of Dinosaurs" for an simplified graph and info. It's a good link that doesn't get too bogged down with technical jargon.
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/genbio/ra...hancement.html

GREAT link; thanks.
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