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Old 02-22-2017, 04:12 PM
 
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Does anyone remember MonsterQuest? I thought it was entertaining and suspenseful.
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Old 02-22-2017, 06:15 PM
Status: "Retired and Happy" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Originally Posted by Graystripe View Post
Does anyone remember MonsterQuest? I thought it was entertaining and suspenseful.
Yeah, I think I saw every episode while it was on. I liked it very much.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:17 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Hyenas aren't canids at all, they're in their own family and hence are not cross-fertile with canids. They're actually more closely related to cats than to dogs.

Neither hyenas nor canids could breed with thylacines, which are marsupials and hence not cross fertile with carnivora like hyenas and canids. If they were to bring the thylacines back through genetic engineering, it would be using a marsupial host like a Tasmanian devil.

mmm. Yes, I found that out reading up last night. Thus the hyena like features described about the animals I'm interested in are very puzzling. I suppose that selective, or even accidental, cross breeding of certain types of canines might produce an animal with that strange high in the front low in the back build and the heavy bone crushing jaws. They are also said to be strictly nocturnal as well. Not so unusual since coyotes hunt mostly at night, but not exclusively.


Monster Quest has been mentioned, which is a pretty good show and actually the one I first saw these devil dog animals on. Much better than Mountain Monsters with it's Duck Dynasty meets the Beverly Hillbillies crew. Anyway, as to the possible genetic makeup of such animals as are in question, it's a fascinating puzzle. I've seen some quite formidable coyote/dog hybrids. They are actually becoming a problem for livestock and wildlife as well here where I live. The one I had was a very formidable animal. Mongrel breeding is a likely source of heretofore unknown canines in the wild. Feral cats are even worse in some ways, decimating both game and songbird populations. Still, I dream of going out and taking a look for myself into some of these cryptids.


Thanks for the extra food for thought on the genetic aspects. That, it seems, is one of the top mysteries about these "new" and/or unknown animals.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:35 AM
Status: "Retired and Happy" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
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Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
mmm. Yes, I found that out reading up last night. Thus the hyena like features described about the animals I'm interested in are very puzzling. I suppose that selective, or even accidental, cross breeding of certain types of canines might produce an animal with that strange high in the front low in the back build and the heavy bone crushing jaws. They are also said to be strictly nocturnal as well. Not so unusual since coyotes hunt mostly at night, but not exclusively.
Are you referring to the shunka warakin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunka_Warakin

Natural selection can result in convergent evolution -- which means groups that are not very closely related at all can develop the same feature. Thus, the squid/octopus eye is structurally similar to ours -- because that's the best solution from a physics perspective for high-quality vision. Evolution would select for bone-crushing jaws in a canid if the food sources available to it require bone crushing, because the individuals who have bone-crushing jaws will have an advantage in obtaining and using nutrients.
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Old 02-23-2017, 10:09 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Are you referring to the shunka warakin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunka_Warakin

Natural selection can result in convergent evolution -- which means groups that are not very closely related at all can develop the same feature. Thus, the squid/octopus eye is structurally similar to ours -- because that's the best solution from a physics perspective for high-quality vision. Evolution would select for bone-crushing jaws in a canid if the food sources available to it require bone crushing, because the individuals who have bone-crushing jaws will have an advantage in obtaining and using nutrients.

No, the one I'm talking about is further east. They call it the "hissing critter" or Ozark black howler because of it's distinctive hissing/warbling call. Angelfire has a picture of an actual skeleton found by some hunters. I'm having trouble putting up pic and links or I'd post the pic. It's VERY strange. Actually has spikes running down the spine. Huge jaws and strange teeth, obviously made for crushing bone. The canine teethe are not very pronounced but the dental structure is still very formidable looking. The shunka warakan is a western critter. MT and WY area. I believe the term means "carries off dogs". One was actually shot and mounted, and the display only recently found after being packed off for a long time.


It's a strange one too. I think it was a Pleistocene holdover. Some had theorized it was a Dire wolf, but the head and jaw structure and size don't match. It was also more hyenadon than true canid from the pictures I've seen. Odd jaw structure with the lower mandible jutting forward and curving up into the upper.
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Old 02-24-2017, 08:28 AM
 
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Friends say this is very close to what a few have seen.

[url=http://s160.photobucket.com/user/147thst/media/striped_hyaena_zpsee3978d2.jpg.html][/URL

Look at this.

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Old 02-24-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Friends say this is very close to what a few have seen.

[url=http://s160.photobucket.com/user/147thst/media/striped_hyaena_zpsee3978d2.jpg.html][/URL

Look at this.

Yes!.. Thank you. The second pic is the hissing critter. There is another pic in that series of 3 that shows the head and a frontal of the jaws. Note the spinal spikes on the skeleton. People have been describing a hyena like creature. That pic of the striped hyena comes very close to supposed structure. The skeleton does bear out a very oddly put together, but quite formidable, animal.


A mainly nocturnal pack hunter. Large and strong and quite able to bring down full grown cattle. No easy feat, not even for a pack of wolves. Mountain lions seldom attack full grown livestock like cattle or horses. Preferring calves. foals and sheep. Same with coyotes. I have no experience with wolves, though I can assume they work similar to coyotes. Coyotes are canny, innovative, adaptable, and despite not being overly large, very formidable. Especially when working in packs, which despite legend, they don't do all the time. They work more in pairs, not actual packs like wolves. Though they have been packing up more in the last 20 years or so, adapting to changing conditions. They have also adapted quite well to urban areas.


In the East, they have cross bred with wolves and created a new class of canine predator. Here in the West cross breeding with feral dogs has done the same. That something else has developed from hybriding, possibly with escaped exotics of some sort or another is certainly within the realm of possibility.


That skeleton in the pic you posted is not a dog. The other pics that go with it show that. There is something out there. There is a breeding population, and they are flat lethal. The question that nags me is where did they come from? How does such an animal just pop up , killing livestock with brutal efficiency, is elusive as hell, obviously quite canny, just seemingly out of the blue? Monster Quest showed pictures of cattle kills supposedly done by these animals. Monster Quest is of a bit higher quality than such like Moutain Monsters which is a total farce. Destination America showed some of the same pics when they did a piece on these animals. Full grown Angus cows. Torn to pieces. That's a big, strong animal. And a bull was supposedly brought down as well as numerous cows. A bull? The cow is no easy pickings, a bull would take a pack of VERY nasty animals to even think about taking on, let alone bring down and tear to shreds. Animals with a scary weight and power range, with a temperament to match.
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Old 02-24-2017, 12:04 PM
Status: "Retired and Happy" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
3,149 posts, read 2,599,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Coyotes are canny, innovative, adaptable, and despite not being overly large, very formidable. Especially when working in packs, which despite legend, they don't do all the time. They work more in pairs, not actual packs like wolves. Though they have been packing up more in the last 20 years or so, adapting to changing conditions. They have also adapted quite well to urban areas.

In the East, they have cross bred with wolves and created a new class of canine predator. Here in the West cross breeding with feral dogs has done the same. That something else has developed from hybriding, possibly with escaped exotics of some sort or another is certainly within the realm of possibility.
Actually, not just on the East coast - coywolves are here in Illinois, too, and around the Great Lakes (we don't consider ourselves "East"). They tend to be more aggressive than coyotes, and hunt in packs like wolves. This article suggests they originated in the Great Lakes area and spread south and east from there:

Coyote-Wolf Hybrids Have Spread Across U.S. East

Quote:
Monster Quest showed pictures of cattle kills supposedly done by these animals. Monster Quest is of a bit higher quality than such like Moutain Monsters which is a total farce. Destination America showed some of the same pics when they did a piece on these animals. Full grown Angus cows. Torn to pieces. That's a big, strong animal. And a bull was supposedly brought down as well as numerous cows. A bull? The cow is no easy pickings, a bull would take a pack of VERY nasty animals to even think about taking on, let alone bring down and tear to shreds. Animals with a scary weight and power range, with a temperament to match.
Wolves (and I assume coywolves) are very smart -- they might harass a bull until one of them could sneak in and tear its jugular -- at which point all they have to do is wait for it to bleed out as suggested in the following article: "...The wolves patiently parry with big animals until the animal tires. When they spot an opening, one or two will seize the hind legs with their massive jaws and a third will clamp on the throat..."

To Kill and Be Killed - latimes

Regarding the hissing critter -- yeah, I remember reading about those now.
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