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Old 07-11-2018, 03:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I realise you want to present us with a 'reasonable person' character, however, it is NOT a reasonable belief any longer - in light of ALL the circumstancial evidence there is out there.

A 'reasonable person' character will examine all the evidence and come to a conclusion, they will not keep ignoring all the 'reasonable evidence' for alien life both here on Earth and in space. So... which is it? If you listen to scientsist, then there are many scientsist who postulate that the number of stars and 'Earths' number in the billions and so the chances are high. If you dont listen to scientists then you probably end up like me, who believes that there is alien life both here and in our solar system.
The search of our own solar system, as well as other star systems, includes the search for life beyond the Earth. We are either alone in the universe or we're not. It's one of the big questions we'd like to be able to answer conclusively. There are indeed tantalizing hints that increase the odds, but we've not yet reached any concrete conclusions. It remains an unanswered question. That said, there have been examples of clues that have been detected beyond Earth which includes the presence of water in the form of ice (possibly in liquid form) and the abundance of hydrocarbons (essential for life as we know it), etc.

In my opinion, Mars may be the best planet at the present time to find signs of life beyond the Earth in the solar system. Mars is, on average, a very cold planet. That make it difficult for water to be found in liquid form on the surface. However, water could remain in liquid form beneath the surface by heavy salts which would prevent water from becoming solid ice. There's plenty of that on Mars.

We've also found (in Antarctica) meteorites from Mars that hint at possible nano-bacteria. Most well known is the Allen Hills 84001 meteorite. It still remains under debate though. There has also been the detection of methane that briefly show up here and there on Mars. That could result from underground organisms or it could originate from geological activity. Pinpointing the exact locations of where it's coming from has been a problem.

While some of the moons in the solar system appear to be hiding oceans beneath thick layers of ice might contain organisms, possibly some being more complex. The big hassle is the thickness of the ice layer. Because of that, to me, Mars seems much easier (relatively speaking) to explore than the icy moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

There's nothing wrong with having higher odds to increase the likelihood of life, but making a firm conclusion is based on personal belief without stronger evidence. There are some exoplanets that might be suitable for life, but that's still just speculation. We don't really have any details about those exoplanets. It appears that for life to emerge on a habitable planet, the conditions are extremely complex. Even so, there's no guarantee that life will always emerge on all planets with favorable conditions.

If there is life is reasonably common, my view is that the most common form will be microbial. A lesser number of exoplanets might give rise to simple, but multicellular organisms. Getting up to more complex organisms is likely to be possible but fairly uncommon. More rare would be intelligent forms of life. And the most rare would be advanced forms of intelligent life. That's speculative on my part. Realistically, I can be optimistic that life exists out there, but I'm honest enough to say that I really don't know one way or the other. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible. Is it factually certain? No. It remains unknown.

No, I'm not apt to end up like you. I will end up like myself . Unlike you, I hold a neutral view about the existence of alien life. That doesn't mean I think it isn't possible. As I've stated, we don't yet know one way or the other. To flatly say without evidence, "Yes, there is extraterrestrial life, is pure speculation. Personally, I'd like to see actual proof, not just fuzzy photos or tales of personal encounters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Technically and literally, yes, it is unknown but 'unknown' is (as you say Night Bazaar) a belief at this stage because it is just a matter of physical evidence and we do not have that from other planets.
Thank you for agreeing. It is indeed currently just a belief as there is no physical evidence to support such beliefs. There's nothing wrong with beliefs, but belief alone is not conclusive proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
However, a reasonable person would probably listen to the scientists and come to a conclusion that there WAS life out there and they would probably start to look for it here too. Now... just because it is out there does not mean it is here BUT it COULD be here just as likely as anywhere else. It is the same probability, so why not?
I agree with you to a point. The problem is that you tend to imply certain things in a vague way. As I pointed out, we are searching for things here on Earth that would point to life from elsewhere in the cosmos, such as the Allen Hills 84001 meteorite. However, the real proof of the pudding is going to be what we find out there. For example, if we find microbes on Mars that are not hitchhikers on the equipment, that will greatly raise the odds of life elsewhere. I would not expect we'll find signs that Mars is or ever has been inhabited by intelligent life. If something is ever uncovered that positively points to something artificial that was made by some form of intelligent life, then I'm certainly open to that possibility. Fuzzy photos, pareidolia, and tales of personal experiences do not constitute proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The fact that we have been transmitting radio and TV signals into space in recent years means that they may well be attracted to us and so in some ways it is MORE LIKELY to be here than other places. A science type of person would look at this and think about probabilities and start looking around for proof/evidence.
Currently, the oldest signals from Earth are about 116 light years away. Signals beyond 2-5 light years out become very difficult to detect. The problem, as previously indicated, is that the farther a signal travels, the weaker the signal becomes. It degrades with distance and depends on the strength of the original transmission signal. It would take an extremely powerful transmitter and an extremely large receiver to send and receive a signal between Earth and star systems that are relatively near to Earth.

116 light years is a heck of a long distance from Earth, but it's barely a drop in the bucket to the scale of the galaxy. The signal would be so weak that it would blend in and be indistinguishable from other interstellar noise long before it reached that distance. Would aliens out there be attracted to our signals? Not likely. Why would it be more likely that aliens would be here?
https://www.quora.com/How-far-do-rad...to-be-detected
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:02 PM
 
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From the NY times article, Dec 2017...

Quoting Luis Elizondo (director for the Pentagons UFO study),

"Under Mr Bigelows direction, the company (Bigelow Aerospace) modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena."



By 2009, the program had made such extraordinary discoveries that he argued for heightened security to protect it. “Much progress has been made with the identification of several highly sensitive, unconventional aerospace-related findings,” Mr. Reid said in a letter to William Lynn III, a deputy defense secretary at the time, requesting that it be designated a “restricted special access program” limited to a few listed officials.
A 2009 Pentagon briefing summary of the program prepared by its director at the time asserted that “what was considered science fiction is now science fact,” and that the United States was incapable of defending itself against some of the technologies discovered.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
What evidence would that be exactly?
I want to see aliens as much if not more than anybody else. The evidence, for me, would be aliens making contact with me, or sufficient numbers of people, or signal/visual interceptions by multiple agencies.

All the silly, vague, stupid nonsense such as "Aliens are here but the government is hiding them.", "Our camcorders can't capture them because their technology is so advanced.", "They are here but they are just watching us from a distance.", "The government won't tell us because it will cause a panic.", "I have met many people who were abducted by aliens.", "I see lights in the sky, must be aliens.", "This structure looks strange. The aliens built it." are not evidence. Call them what you will: lies, sheep belief, gullible minds, wild imagination, Hollywood influence, etc.

Just don't call those evidence.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:40 AM
 
Location: China
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar
There's nothing wrong with having higher odds to increase the likelihood of life, but making a firm conclusion is based on personal belief without stronger evidence. There are some exoplanets that might be suitable for life, but that's still just speculation.
You see... what I call belief, you call speculation. It is a grey scale not a binary black/white because often the science is overturned later. Proof as you want it is binary black/white.

In my experience, if planetry scientists repeat something amongst each other for long enough they get to believe it and it becomes "accepted". Others on here who believe what these scientists say also accept it. Then of course, there is the two-story which NASA like to do with their wind arguments - strong enough to whip up a dust storm yet not strong enough to move a 5mm concretion spherule into piles.

Basically, where off-planet stuff is concerned, we are unlikely to get there physically and so photographs (yes even NASA blurry ones from Mars rovers) and chemical analysis are used to "determine" what kind of rock it is or how a Lunar rille was formed. An atmosphere which is unlike Earths cannot possibly harbour life on Mars and thats the end of it.

An armchair scientist, and there are many of them, is not allowed to "discover" life because 'evidence' in a bunch of images (the same ones used by scientists) is not enough to be believed or taken seriously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1
The evidence, for me, would be aliens making contact with me, or sufficient numbers of people, or signal/visual interceptions by multiple agencies.
Be careful what you wish for... you might be granted that wish. However, if you want contact, then I hope you get it.

Sufficient numbers? There are certainly many thousands of people who you can believe have made contact with aliens - if you wish to believe them. However, I am almost certain you will NOT wish to believe them because their story is too far out for you. Contact does not always come in nice little aliens shaking hands with you and your mates on the White House lawn. It comes in the form of implants, abductions, missing time, and other experiences which are far more real for those people than you would like to experience with your 'contact'. Sorry to burst your bubble. I am not wishing to be rude but I AM wishing to be real.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
I want to see aliens as much if not more than anybody else. The evidence, for me, would be aliens making contact with me, or sufficient numbers of people, or signal/visual interceptions by multiple agencies.

All the silly, vague, stupid nonsense such as "Aliens are here but the government is hiding them.", "Our camcorders can't capture them because their technology is so advanced.", "They are here but they are just watching us from a distance.", "The government won't tell us because it will cause a panic.", "I have met many people who were abducted by aliens.", "I see lights in the sky, must be aliens.", "This structure looks strange. The aliens built it." are not evidence. Call them what you will: lies, sheep belief, gullible minds, wild imagination, Hollywood influence, etc.

Just don't call those evidence.
Look at my post right above yours...have you read any of those Dec 2017 articles? If those arent the evidence you are looking for, Im not sure what would be!

Two things point to very direct proof imo..one being that an aerospace company was given taxpayer money to modify its buildings to house metal alloys and other unknown materials, recovered from UAPs (that means THEY HAVE parts of an alien craft, and needed to modify a building in order to store them).

The other one was the briefing report to the Pentagon, stating they had made significant progress in identifying some of these materials and the military would not be able to defend against such technology if it was ever used against us (think about what that is saying!!!)
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:31 PM
 
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For what it's worth, here is a recent article, dated July 5, 2018, and titled, 'Alien Life May Be Rare in Our Galaxy Today.'
''The hunt for E.T. may have gotten more difficult. New research suggests that alien life may not be as widespread as we had hoped.

When it comes to hunting for alien civilizations, a key question is how plentiful intelligent extraterrestrials are in the universe — but the answer to that question depends on a lot of knowledge scientists don't have yet.''

''"We can show that, given current scientific uncertainty, we get a distribution that could make both the optimists and pessimists happy at the same time: a fair chance of several alien civilizations, but also a fair chance of no aliens within the visible universe," Anders Sandberg told Space.com by email. Sandberg, a philosopher at the University of Oxford, is the lead author on the new research.''

https://www.space.com/41080-alien-li...are-today.html
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
For what it's worth, here is a recent article, dated July 5, 2018, and titled, 'Alien Life May Be Rare in Our Galaxy Today.'
''The hunt for E.T. may have gotten more difficult. New research suggests that alien life may not be as widespread as we had hoped.

When it comes to hunting for alien civilizations, a key question is how plentiful intelligent extraterrestrials are in the universe — but the answer to that question depends on a lot of knowledge scientists don't have yet.''

''"We can show that, given current scientific uncertainty, we get a distribution that could make both the optimists and pessimists happy at the same time: a fair chance of several alien civilizations, but also a fair chance of no aliens within the visible universe," Anders Sandberg told Space.com by email. Sandberg, a philosopher at the University of Oxford, is the lead author on the new research.''

https://www.space.com/41080-alien-li...are-today.html
They must be living under a rock, it was less than a year ago when Harry Reid publicly said "we now have the scientific evidence".
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
They must be living under a rock, it was less than a year ago when Harry Reid publicly said "we now have the scientific evidence".
And yet, Reid didn't provide any details concerning the supposed evidence.
''But the most that’s publicly known about the program’s findings is second-hand at best, coming from insiders relaying their impressions to reporters. Some, like Reid, claim there is compelling evidence that merits further investigation—but the details remain as elusive as the aliens.

“Objective description of any phenomena should be backed up by compelling evidence, and despite many decades of reports of various UFO and abduction phenomena, we don’t have such evidence,” says Andrew Siemion, director of the Berkeley SETI research center. “Moreover, astronomers spend their lives looking at the sky with a wide variety of telescopes and techniques, and we have never snapped a picture of [an unexplained] spaceship.” ''

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...space-science/
Scientists have to go with the evidence, and so far there has been no conclusive evidence for life on other planets, much less evidence of alien life here on earth. I myself saw a UFO many years ago. But UFO simply means unidentified flying object. Not aliens from another planet. There may very well be life on other planets, even intelligent life capable of interstellar space travel. And I'd be surprised if there wasn't life of some kind elsewhere in the Universe. But as of yet, we just don't have the evidence.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:16 AM
 
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I know this is a make believe forum, but when it comes to the subject of aliens, logic and science should still apply. Here is a good layperson analysis this whole alien thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAU9...ature=youtu.be
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Old Yesterday, 09:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And yet, Reid didn't provide any details concerning the supposed evidence.
''But the most that’s publicly known about the program’s findings is second-hand at best, coming from insiders relaying their impressions to reporters. Some, like Reid, claim there is compelling evidence that merits further investigation—but the details remain as elusive as the aliens.

“Objective description of any phenomena should be backed up by compelling evidence, and despite many decades of reports of various UFO and abduction phenomena, we don’t have such evidence,” says Andrew Siemion, director of the Berkeley SETI research center. “Moreover, astronomers spend their lives looking at the sky with a wide variety of telescopes and techniques, and we have never snapped a picture of [an unexplained] spaceship.” ''

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...space-science/
Scientists have to go with the evidence, and so far there has been no conclusive evidence for life on other planets, much less evidence of alien life here on earth. I myself saw a UFO many years ago. But UFO simply means unidentified flying object. Not aliens from another planet. There may very well be life on other planets, even intelligent life capable of interstellar space travel. And I'd be surprised if there wasn't life of some kind elsewhere in the Universe. But as of yet, we just don't have the evidence.
Well of course Reid is not going to divulge those details, that stuff is HIGHLY classified, he would be charged criminally for revealing classified information.


Id LOVE LOVE to get a look at that Pentagon briefing though (I wonder if anyone has attempted a FOIA request for it yet?) That is something I would pay out of my own pocket to get.

You were right though, WE do not have the evidence....but THEY do.

Ultimately, if Govt spent taxpayer money to modify buildings in order to store recovered metals and other materials (that is a FACT that they did do this), and made enough progress to identify them as being a real threat that our military could not defend against...well, that answers the big question imo. There IS intelligent extraterrestrial life and it HAS come to this planet before. I would almost go as far to say that aspect of the Dec 2017 article WAS the official disclosure...without really dumbing it down and saying it outright...(if they didnt exist or we didnt have the evidence, there would be no need to modify buildings for metal or materials AND create a pentagon briefing explaining the nature/potential threat.)

The briefing itself is proof that they have the evidence also, how else would they be able to reach the conclusion about this technology and our military not being able to defend against it?

Last edited by rstevens62; Yesterday at 09:52 AM..
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