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Old 07-28-2017, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,620 posts, read 3,302,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimrich View Post
Elvis is definitely still alive.
So is Frodo and Walter White.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:34 AM
 
21,038 posts, read 6,067,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
"cause a panic" seems to be the most popular excuse for lack of proof. Did the 9/11 attack cause a panic? No, it did not. The the 2013 asteroid cause a panic. Not it did not. If anything news of alien existence would cause excitement and joy. I know I won't panic. I have no reason to.

Throw in some vague Chinese fortune cookies philosophy to further divert from lack of proof and voila aliens really exist but we don't need to show you any proof.
it may be exciting and joyous for the general population, but it could also be potentially devastating for our way of life and society as a whole.

What if these aliens claimed to be our creators, and had some kind of convincing proof this was true (even if it was not), that alone would start wars among the many religions. Or what if they showed us that everything we had held true and previously believed in, was completely wrong

What if they gave the population some of their technology or showed people how to access unknown sources of energy, this would devastate many large industries that employ millions of people, it would also threaten governments level of control over the people.

Thats the problem with disclosing, all the potential problems that come along with it.

Even without aliens, our govts withhold certain inventions and technology that would could cause similar problems, the INvention secrecy act of 1951 ensures technology never gets 'too beneficial' for the public. Thats why some of Nikola Teslas inventions remain classified and locked up.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:46 AM
 
5,460 posts, read 8,642,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I once heard an analogy that I think puts it into perspective...

Ocean and aquatic life know nothing of the world that exists right above the water line, a fish in a lake assumes that body of water IS THE WORLD and it is to that fish for the most part. if they are suddenly plucked out of their world, they could not begin to understand how complex the real world is, and how small their lake really is when looking at the big picture.
That's probably not the best or accurate analogy to use for putting things into perspective.

- Whales, dolphins, etc., emerge and leap above the water line. Although they're air breathing mammals, they are oceanic life.
- Sharks and marlin have been known to leap above the water.
- Crabs emerge from the water and wander around on beaches, etc. Octopuses also do that sometimes.
- The remarkable archer fish are able to spot insects flying above the water and capture the insects by accurately spitting water at them.
- Salmon, trout, bass, and a lot of other fish will leap above the water line to capture insects.
- Flying fish are able to soar as high as 20 feet above the water for up to 42 seconds and usually travel about 160 feet, but sometimes as far as 1,300 feet.
- Walking catfish can wriggle across dry land for hours or even days (as long as its skin is wet) to find food or suitable environments.
- The lungfish can live for a year or more out of the water, albeit in a state of dormancy. This fish has gills, but it also has primitive lungs.


While I doubt many water creatures consciously think about what exists above the water line, apparently some are quite aware that there's more going on than just in the confines of their watery environment.
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:49 AM
 
9,558 posts, read 3,708,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caves19 View Post
Do you believe in aliens? Or maybe another species? in another universe? Have you ever seen a UFO? I have seen a couple weird things in the sky before that couldn't be explained.

I believe in who is impersonating them. And I've seen two of them in flight, and was involved in one of the largest mass sightings ever, as one landed in a field behind my house at the time, on the other side of which was a factory where over 200 people working the night shift watched it land on government owned property (field was a part of a munitions testing facility).
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:39 AM
 
1,521 posts, read 917,697 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antics36 View Post
I really do believe in aliens. I want to go to Night Time in the Desert one day. I haven't seen an Alien Space Craft before but I have seen shows on them. MUFON Rules.
You don't have to go to the desert one day to see one...just go outside at night when you can and look up. Eventually you will see one. There are a record number of cases being reported. There are cases of people seeing red/orange orbs everywhere as well, my wife and I included about 5 years ago.
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:44 AM
 
Location: SC
8,795 posts, read 6,524,909 times
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Logically, I can't see how there CAN'T be aliens somewhere - they have to exist the universe is far too big for just us.
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:53 AM
 
21,038 posts, read 6,067,391 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
That's probably not the best or accurate analogy to use for putting things into perspective.

- Whales, dolphins, etc., emerge and leap above the water line. Although they're air breathing mammals, they are oceanic life.
- Sharks and marlin have been known to leap above the water.
- Crabs emerge from the water and wander around on beaches, etc. Octopuses also do that sometimes.
- The remarkable archer fish are able to spot insects flying above the water and capture the insects by accurately spitting water at them.
- Salmon, trout, bass, and a lot of other fish will leap above the water line to capture insects.
- Flying fish are able to soar as high as 20 feet above the water for up to 42 seconds and usually travel about 160 feet, but sometimes as far as 1,300 feet.
- Walking catfish can wriggle across dry land for hours or even days (as long as its skin is wet) to find food or suitable environments.
- The lungfish can live for a year or more out of the water, albeit in a state of dormancy. This fish has gills, but it also has primitive lungs.


While I doubt many water creatures consciously think about what exists above the water line, apparently some are quite aware that there's more going on than just in the confines of their watery environment.
Some of these creatures may be able to come out of the water for awhile, but they still have no clue about how complex the world really is, they could not even begin to understand technology, politics, how economies work, etc.

I have a feeling we humans are just like that, we may have some idea on 'the big picture' and even be able to physically get there in some limited capacity (space travel, sending out probes, etc), but its likely we could not even begin to understand the real truth, just like a crab, it would not make any sense even if an alien sat down and tried explaining it to us, we are just too limited to thinking in human terms, human understanding, reasoning.

Its kind of like how many skeptics like to use physical distances of space to disprove any alien visitation to earth, they think the distances are just too far, but they do not stop to think that maybe a civilization that may be million+ yrs ahead of us has overcome the travel distance hurdle, their mindset is limited to current human capabilities and technology.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:40 AM
 
123 posts, read 68,441 times
Reputation: 167
Yes and I also believe in a wall
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:02 PM
 
5,460 posts, read 8,642,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Some of these creatures may be able to come out of the water for awhile, but they still have no clue about how complex the world really is, they could not even begin to understand technology, politics, how economies work, etc.

I have a feeling we humans are just like that, we may have some idea on 'the big picture' and even be able to physically get there in some limited capacity (space travel, sending out probes, etc), but its likely we could not even begin to understand the real truth, just like a crab, it would not make any sense even if an alien sat down and tried explaining it to us, we are just too limited to thinking in human terms, human understanding, reasoning.

Its kind of like how many skeptics like to use physical distances of space to disprove any alien visitation to earth, they think the distances are just too far, but they do not stop to think that maybe a civilization that may be million+ yrs ahead of us has overcome the travel distance hurdle, their mindset is limited to current human capabilities and technology.
Thank you for your opinion. My reply was in reference to your post which stated: "Ocean and aquatic life know nothing of the world that exists right above the water line". However, not all oceanic and aquatic life are unaware of what exists above the water line. Some indeed do have the ability to move across land surfaces. Some can perceive and capture potential prey that exist above the water line. My point is that there are water creatures that do have some degree of understanding of what's above the water line. That said, it's probably reasonable to suggest that most water creatures are unaware or unconcerned about what's above the water line. Having said that, now that I think about it, many lake and river fish also go up to the surface to either snap at insects that are on or near the water line. They will also gulp for air if their watery environment is too low in oxygen (such as stagnant, polluted or overcrowded water conditions). I had simply shown that your example wasn't the best to use because it doesn't really apply to all oceanic and aquatic life.
https://www.petco.com/content/petco/...e-surface.html
https://www.petcha.com/goldfish-brea...backyard-pond/

While such creatures may not possess the same degree of intelligence as humans, or that they are not aware of everything above the water, that doesn't mean they have no intelligence or that they are always unaware of what's above the water line. It's just a matter of degree. The example I mentioned about flying fish, these fish appear to do that as a way to escape underwater predators. Lungfish and walking catfish are able to completely leave the water to search for other suitable watery environments. Although they don't possess the level of intelligence as humans, they do possess some degree of intelligence in their tiny brains, at least enough to be able to instinctively survive.

It's regarded that humans and all land dwelling creatures ultimately emerged (evolved) from water dwelling creatures to gradually explore more of what's above the water line and began to move across land surfaces. In effect, we are the distant descendants of those prehistoric water creatures. Interestingly, a large percentage of the human body is made up of water meaning that we still need water in order to survive.

A few differences between humans and water creatures is that we evolved to survive on land, we lost gills and developed lungs, our brains began to grow, and our experiences enabled us to learn and develop things useful to survive on land and avoid predators. Today, intelligence is largely a matter of degree between us and the creatures that live underwater. Many if not most water creatures don't need to know everything above the water line like we do. They still live in their water world, whereas we live above it. But many are at least aware that there's something above the water line and sometimes they interact with part of the world above albeit in a very limited way.

I don't disagree with you about our limitations in understanding. We don't know all there is to know. We're still in the process of learning. If an advanced intelligent alien life form that has the capability of traveling profound distances across space were to describe certain things to us, there is bound to be some things that we simply don't or can't understand right now. But again, it's just a matter of degree relative to our current knowledge and experience. It would also depend on how advanced they are. While a civilization that has the ability to travel an enormous number of light years to reach the Earth would be impressive, it could well be that we may also discover such abilities on our own thousands or millions of years from now by evolving to that point, and the human species as we know it, might no longer exist and had become a completely different kind of intelligent species.

An example. I've met people in certain countries that are unaware of many of the things we take for granted. They still rely on manual labor or animals for farming, live without electricity, build their own houses in a primitive way, rely on various kinds of plants for medical purposes, etc. They think foreigners like you or I must be extremely rich. How else would anyone be able to afford to cross the ocean? Does that mean they are less intelligent than we are? Absolutely not. They have remarkable ways of doing things that are highly intelligent. They seem very content with their way of life. It's what they know from multiple generations before them. It's just that they haven't had the same experiences as we have. At the same time, I have learned things from them. They know things that you and I don't know or that has been long forgotten by our way of life.

As for intelligent alien species, we don't know anything about them or if there has ever been any to visit the Earth, contrary to what some folks might think. For all we know they could be some intelligent form of amoeba that can modify its shape, or they could be made up of large colonies of single-celled things. Come to think of it, that kind of describes most life on Earth. We're little more than a collection of cells that work together that enables us to do the things we do. Or more than likely, might just be nothing more than artificial intelligent machines. Until such an encounter takes place, all we can do is speculate, which might be right, or might be wrong.
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:24 PM
 
5,460 posts, read 8,642,063 times
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Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
Logically, I can't see how there CAN'T be aliens somewhere - they have to exist the universe is far too big for just us.
It's not so much that there can't be aliens elsewhere in the galaxy or the universe. Sure, it's possible. It's that we really don't know what else is out there, or how common life elsewhere might be. That said, it's not impossible to consider that we might be among the first forms of intelligent life to have emerged in the universe. The thing is that we just don't know one way or the other. My guess is that if we ever discover any life within our own solar system, it's likely to be microbial. As for other star systems, we're no where near that point yet for exploration. Of the exoplanets that have been discovered (which is a tiny number considering the vast size of the galaxy), most appear to be unsuitable for life as we know it. And of the suspected rocky exoplanets that are though to be near earth-sized and within the so-called habitable zone (allowing for water to exist in a liquid state), it's anyone's guess as to whether or not any kind of life exists there. It's also possible that we might be in a part of the galaxy where life is rather rare. The Milky Way is an enormous galaxy, so there could be areas on the other side where life is more abundant. It's not likely we'd ever be able to determine from the Earth though, and much too far to send any probes there any time in the near future.
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