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Old 09-09-2017, 07:51 AM
 
828 posts, read 202,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Thanks for sharing your views. That said, I'd be inclined to think that "UFOs" probably do exist. I have to say "probably" because I've never had the experience to actually see any. The real issue is about what they really are. It gets to be a bit of a difficult situation because a UFO could be anything at all. Could they be crafts from somewhere else in the galaxy? Maybe, but that's definitely not the only possible explanation. Some UFOs could also be some kind of weird natural but unexplainable phenomena. There are a lot of things we don't know and are currently unable to explain. And there are things that we might never be able to explain. But for some people, it seems the only explanation for UFOs is that they're artificial vehicles created, operated or controlled by some kind of intelligent beings or entities from elsewhere in the galaxy or the universe without any conclusive support that their view is the only explanation without any need for real evidence. Remember, UFO simply means "Unidentified Flying Objects". If we knew what they were, they wouldn't be considered as "Unidentified".

There are very good reasons for scrambling aircraft when unusual or unexpected blips show up on radar, or are seen visually. The mission is to try to identify these things in order to determine if they are or aren't aircraft from other not-so-friendly countries. In most cases, an aircraft flying into another country's airspace must have authorization to enter that airspace. The reason for such regulations and policies is a matter of national security and to prevent anyone sneaking in that may have hostile intentions. It isn't much different than traveling to other countries. You usually have to have a visa which is an authorization to enter that country. Aircraft are also required by international convention to have authorization to fly over a country's airspace. With commercial aircraft, such authorization is prearranged along with mutual agreement. Still, commercial aircraft must make radio contact to verify the airplane's ID and position or location. Most of the time, position and location are automatically transmitted.

I have a little difficulty with your description about "escorting these things" as a probable attempt to create similar aircraft, anti-gravity experimentation, etc. I think it's more likely military aircraft are scrambled to identify the mystery objects and to determine if they pose a threat and/or an unauthorized breech of security over national airspace. That's not unreasonable to understand. Unfortunately, there are plenty of potential threats in the world by other unfriendly nations or people.


While the pilots may be given a reason for the chase, most information is limited to acknowledging the presence of an Unidentified Flying Object, and to identify what kind of object it is. Additionally, information such as location, direction, altitude and speed of the objects are likely given to the pilots. Apart from all that, the pilots are on their own but follow the protocols and orders that they've been trained for. Additional communication is between the squad leader and other planes or with the base. Part of the standards would be to try to establish communication with the craft.


I'd have to disagree with details being dumbed down to address the matter to the general public as though the public are still in grade school. I know what you mean though. But I think there's more to it than that. I think it's mostly a matter of presenting a simplified account for the majority of the general public. There are some technical and scientific details that most of the pubic would not be able to understand. For example, there are papers that include a lot of deep mathematical concepts that only the scientists or technicians will understand. It's like a specialized language. Not everyone knows those "languages", so it's easier to describe things in a way that is understandable to the majority of the general public rather than just a select few.

For a comparative example, I can speak and understand two different languages. If someone is speaking some other language, like Chinese, Russian, French, German, etc., I wouldn't have the slightest idea what the person is saying. I go in for periodic medical checkups. If my PCP were to use all only medical terms to describe a condition, procedures, etc., I'd have no real idea about what he's talking about. Most of the "dumbed down" information the public receives usually from the media, public announcements or public lectures, are described in non-technical terms. From the media, information is usually kept fairly short and brief because of limited print space or time restrictions. The point is that things aren't necessarily "dumbed down" to hide things, but rather more to make the subjects better understandable by a wider range of people - the general public - rather than just to a professional audience. It's not always perfect, but it's generally the best method unless we have the technical or professional level of complex skills and knowledge.

That said, I would agree that sometimes things aren't always revealed, especially if it deals with national security. It wouldn't be very wise to blab out some secrets to the entire world. Other countries do the same thing.
I think its interesting that today, the Govt actually admits it used UFOs in the past as a cover story for some of the aircraft they were experimenting with years ago, there was an article about how the CIA did this as a way to keep this kind of info out of the wrong hands, so Id say the same thing is probably going on today, if it worked in the past to keep air craft design secret, surely they would use it again.

So, i think this kind of gives us a good idea what kind of tech they are working on for future aircraft, many UFO reports involve craft that can hover and fly totally silent, some type of cloaking technology, and the basic shape of these things looks nothing like a conventional plane, there are many reports of spheres and globe shaped craft, square, etc, maybe this means they are experimenting with a new type of propulsion and aerodynamics is not what it used to be.. ?

But then again, its 2017 and even the most recent, advanced fighter jet is pretty close to other aircraft, they still look like a normal plane, still very very loud, and most cannot hover in place.
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Old 09-09-2017, 09:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I think its interesting that today, the Govt actually admits it used UFOs in the past as a cover story for some of the aircraft they were experimenting with years ago, there was an article about how the CIA did this as a way to keep this kind of info out of the wrong hands, so Id say the same thing is probably going on today, if it worked in the past to keep air craft design secret, surely they would use it again.

So, i think this kind of gives us a good idea what kind of tech they are working on for future aircraft, many UFO reports involve craft that can hover and fly totally silent, some type of cloaking technology, and the basic shape of these things looks nothing like a conventional plane, there are many reports of spheres and globe shaped craft, square, etc, maybe this means they are experimenting with a new type of propulsion and aerodynamics is not what it used to be.. ?

But then again, its 2017 and even the most recent, advanced fighter jet is pretty close to other aircraft, they still look like a normal plane, still very very loud, and most cannot hover in place.
I think you've hit the nail square on the head. The military had certainly had projects that resembled flying saucers and the triangular-shaped UFO's that have been frequently reported. Some go back to the 1950's.

Of hovering aircraft, the Harrier Jump Jet is one that comes to mind, in that it could lift off vertically and take off horizontally like other aircraft. They could also hover. Of appearance, they looked like conventional aircraft. There'd be no mistaking it's shape. The point is that hovering aircraft is something that's been developed and put to use.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrier_Jump_Jet

With respect to triangular-shaped aircraft, the Northrup Flying Wing YB-35 bomber had been around. Some of these things go back to 1942. Only the first one was flown in 1948, then scrapped in 1949. Needless to say, weird looking. Others were developed in the 1950's but were not used for active service and ultimately scrapped. Today, we have the Stealth Fighters and Bombers, which also have a strange triangular shape, and were designed to be invisible to radar. The Stealth aircraft have flown many missions. I think their first use was during the war with Iraq. Even the exhaust of the Stealth aircraft is minimized from view.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_YB-35

The Avro VZ-9 Avrocar looked exactly like a flying saucer and was designed with rather lofty ideas. The USAF was greatly interested in the project and poured money into its development. Unfortunately, it was a failure in many ways, including being able to reach blistering speeds of up to 35 mph. It was aerodynamically unstable and extremely difficult to control.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar

I came across an article about a flying saucer-type craft, said to be from some declassified USAF reports from the 1950's. I have no idea how true any of this is, but it's interesting. The craft was suppose to be able to fly at Mach 4 speeds and an altitude of up to 100,000 feet. I don't think it was ever produced as a working model though. The estimated cost would have been some $3,168,000 back then, or about $26.6 million in today's money.
US Air Force declassifies plans for flying saucer | Fox News

The thing is that the military has certainly been interested in so-called UFO-type aircrafts. Some of these have probably been seen by civilians during test flights. For obvious reasons, the development and testing of such aircraft is not exactly something the military is going to publicly discuss. Further, I wouldn't be surprised if the military might deflect sightings by letting the Alien UFO ideas run free by the public, deny the existence of such aircraft, or simply say nothing about it. Those are good way to keep rival countries in the dark.

With respect to cloaking to render an aircraft invisible to the eye, or other types of vehicles, even to disguise foot soldiers, is certainly being experimented with and has shown some promising results, although not fully convincing or practical to use. I would imagine at some point in time, the technology will be better developed well enough to put into use.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...tion/72544510/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/...tion/72544510/

None of these things have anything to do with ET's though. Rather, they're the product of the technically creative abilities of earthly human beings.

Anyway, we're getting way of track from the original topic.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,712 posts, read 3,696,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Scott View Post
Its exiting to think about the possibility, given its repeating itself. Our radio, TV broadcasts have been out in space for years. Maybe someone heard it. The response though if sent may be ancient due to the vast distances.

I think first contact it it happens will be in a manner like this. I don't see ships showing up here.
One has to remember that any signal broadcast abides by the Inverse Square Law, which would render these signals as hugely powerful signals if they were in fact 3 billion light years away from earth. I can not fathom a power source that big, well maybe a pulsar. The only other way this can be done is by a focused beam radio signal using a parabolic dish. However, this brings up an issue that is hard to over look, why would a civilization send a signal out to a planet that has no life on it? Remember 3 billion years ago the only life on Earth was bacteria. Just look at the New Horizon probe, it 3.8 billion miles from Earth, it uses 2 12 watt transmitters to send signals to Earth. The antennas are 2.1 meter parabolic dishes, yet, it still takes very large receiving antennas to get a signal that is usable. If it were not for these type of antennas then the signal would fall into the backround noise and not be of any use.

A signal weakens as it propagates across the solar system, not because there's anything in space to absorb it, but because of geometry. The area of a sphere increases with the square of its radius, so the farther the signal goes the more it spreads out. Every doubling of distance cuts the strength by a factor of four; this is the inverse square law.

Signals that have transmitted from Earth have travels about 120 light years, these signals are so weak now that they are starting to fall into the backround noise of the universe, so trying to pick out one of these is like picking out a single ripple of a pebble thrown in the water in Japan from a listening post in California.

Last edited by Terryj; 09-11-2017 at 01:48 PM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:00 PM
 
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Once they detect it then just add a few jigawatts.Who they is will use another name most likely.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Once they detect it then just add a few jigawatts.Who they is will use another name most likely.
Or if we hear back from them (in about ~6 billion years), their message might be, "Oh, sorry. We must have dialed the wrong number."
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Or if we hear back from them (in about ~6 billion years), their message might be, "Oh, sorry. We must have dialed the wrong number."
I guess i could live with that unless we had to pay the toll.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
I guess i could live with that unless we had to pay the toll.
It's also possible the caller could be an intergalactic telemarketer.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:50 AM
 
828 posts, read 202,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
One has to remember that any signal broadcast abides by the Inverse Square Law, which would render these signals as hugely powerful signals if they were in fact 3 billion light years away from earth. I can not fathom a power source that big, well maybe a pulsar. The only other way this can be done is by a focused beam radio signal using a parabolic dish. However, this brings up an issue that is hard to over look, why would a civilization send a signal out to a planet that has no life on it? Remember 3 billion years ago the only life on Earth was bacteria. Just look at the New Horizon probe, it 3.8 billion miles from Earth, it uses 2 12 watt transmitters to send signals to Earth. The antennas are 2.1 meter parabolic dishes, yet, it still takes very large receiving antennas to get a signal that is usable. If it were not for these type of antennas then the signal would fall into the backround noise and not be of any use.

A signal weakens as it propagates across the solar system, not because there's anything in space to absorb it, but because of geometry. The area of a sphere increases with the square of its radius, so the farther the signal goes the more it spreads out. Every doubling of distance cuts the strength by a factor of four; this is the inverse square law.

Signals that have transmitted from Earth have travels about 120 light years, these signals are so weak now that they are starting to fall into the backround noise of the universe, so trying to pick out one of these is like picking out a single ripple of a pebble thrown in the water in Japan from a listening post in California.
Maybe the earth has had advanced, intelligent civilizations in the past?
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Old 09-16-2017, 08:30 PM
 
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Agreed. BF can be one of those.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:17 AM
Status: "Retired and Happy" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Naperville, Illinois
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We now know the trajectories of many nearby stars in past ages as well as the future, and the star Gliese 710 will be passing near the Oort Cloud at the edge of the solar system in 1.35 million years. The likely result will be a rain of comets dislodged by the encounter into the inner solar system -- possibly causing a major extinction event. Other stars are suspected as culprits in past extinction events -- they don't do the killing, but the asteroids and comets they disturb do the work.

We also know now that there are many asteroids whose paths intersect earth's orbit, and large enough to cause a major extinction event if one should collide with earth.

Evidence from Hubble and other sources reveals that other solar systems have their Oort Clouds and debris left over from the birth of the system.

Most of this is fairly recent information we didn't have 20-30 years ago. A technological species is running a race against time to manage the forces in their system hell-bent on killing them -- as well as their own darker tendencies. So even if life is common (which is still debatable), it's likely that most of it isn't above the level of microbes, and intelligent life will mostly be at a pre-technological level. We may very well be the only technological civilization in our galaxy.
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