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Old 09-04-2017, 07:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The Dyatlov Pass incident has been posted here before.
Yes I remember, and I added few details there.

Quote:
This is the first time I've read that one team member's tongue and eyes were missing.
Not only that, but according to the medical expertise, her tongue "went missing" while she was still alive.


Quote:
IDK, the story seems to get more embellished every time I encounter it.
About 7-8 years ago, a friend inquired about it. I've never heard about it before, so I did my little "research" and found the ORIGINAL files in Russian on-line, which were still available, the pictures of medical expertise including. They were very detailed, very extensive. You won't find them on-line any longer, only "new versions" that are full of BS and have little to do with the ORIGINAL story.

Quote:
However, the reason several team members fled their tents and tore off their clothes is known. It's due to extreme hypothermia, which causes an odd phenomenon of people thinking they're too hot. The team was very poorly prepared for the conditions they encountered; canvas tents were completely inadequate for survival in the snow.
No, no, and no. It was VERY experienced team, well-prepared for a trip, with adequate clothing and equipment ( tent including.) I can add couple of interesting details here. According to the first search crew ( there were two of them total - the first one decided that it was an "unfortunate situation," while the second one, that came searching later, already realized that it was not just a "mishap," when they discovered the rest of the dead bodies.) So according to the first search team, couple of guys from the tent were out early in the morning to "take a leak." ( They found the traces of urine and a flash-light somewhere on top of the tent I believe.) So what the search team assumed, was that these two saw something, and alerted the rest of the group. When they did, there was no much time to get ready - it was something extremely urgent ( and frightening I assume.) So they had literally to jump out of their beds, pull the clothes on ( they were missing some shoes, apparently,) and run for their lives. Their heavy tent was long, because it was stitched from TWO tents, so in order to get out faster, one of them had to cut it from inside. Once they were out however, they were very organized, and left the location following each other's steps - the way the experienced hikers/skiers are taught to do. (As I've said they all had extensive experience in tourism, through their local club.) So the search team said that judging by the tracks on the snow, they accounted for all of them, the whole group, making it out from the tent and to the end of the slope. But at the end of that slope their tracks were already lost.

Quote:
By comparison, the historic Donner expedition in the Sierra mountains of California, in the early days of California's statehood, at least managed to build some crude log huts, when winter overtook them in their trek westward. Several of the expedition members survived a harsh winter. Some didn't (mainly due to starvation). A few members, who didn't have sufficient shelter, did eventually exhibit the behavior associated with severe hypothermia, and ran out into the snow, throwing off their clothes. They died. You'd think that Russian science, due to the country's northerly location, would be familiar with this phenomenon.

Of course. That's why all these latest *stories* regarding the whole Dyatlov's Pass incident are nonsense. It's almost like someone is coming up with all this nonsense deliberately, while the original files are nowhere to be found any longer.

Last edited by erasure; 09-04-2017 at 08:14 PM..
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes I remember, and I added few details there.



Not only that, but according to the medical expertise, her tongue "went missing" while she was still alive.
Where is that from? I would like a source. A real source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post



About 7-8 years ago, a friend inquired about it. I've never heard about it before, so I did my little "research" and found the ORIGINAL files in Russian on-line, which were still available, the pictures of medical expertise including. They were very detailed, very extensive. You won't find them on-line any longer, only "new versions" that are full of BS and have little to do with the ORIGINAL story.

Why can you not find them online anymore? It would be an anomaly for stuff like this to disappear as there are thousands if not millions of people that wish it were so easy to get rid of information made available on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
No, no, and no. It was VERY experienced team, well-prepared for a trip, with adequate clothing and equipment ( tent including.)
I have a tent, am I experienced Greg? But seriously, they may have been fairly experienced but I do not think they were pros, even if that mattered. George Mallory was more experienced than anyone on this trip and died climbing Everest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I can add couple of interesting details here. According to the first search crew ( there were two of them total - the first one decided that it was an "unfortunate situation," while the second one, that came searching later, already realized that it was not just a "mishap," when they discovered the rest of the dead bodies.) So according to the first search team, couple of guys from the tent were out early in the morning to "take a leak." ( They found the traces of urine and a flash-light somewhere on top of the tent I believe.)
You have to respect the team that can tell by weeks old frozen urine who was inside and outside the tent at the exact moment that started the event. That is pro level forensics. CSI Dyatlov.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So what the search team assumed, was that these two saw something, and alerted the rest of the group. When they did, there was no much time to get ready - it was something extremely urgent ( and frightening I assume.)
This is the theory I believe, minus the frozen urine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So they had literally to jump out of their beds,
They had beds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
pull the clothes on ( they were missing some shoes, apparently,) and run for their lives. Their heavy tent was long, because it was stitched from TWO tents, so in order to get out faster, one of them had to cut it from inside. Once they were out however, they were very organized, and left the location following each other's steps -
I have never seen anything that stated this. There seem to be at least 2 groups as well. It makes sense they would try to stick together, but I am skeptical they were walking in each others footprints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
the way the experienced hikers/skiers are taught to do. (As I've said they all had extensive experience in tourism, through their local club.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So the search team said that judging by the tracks on the snow, they accounted for all of them, the whole group, making it out from the tent and to the end of the slope. But at the end of that slope their tracks were already lost.




Of course. That's why all these latest *stories* regarding the whole Dyatlov's Pass incident are nonsense. It's almost like someone is coming up with all this nonsense deliberately, while the original files are nowhere to be found any longer.
At least we agree on something, though I am skeptical that there are real files that are no longer available. I believe there may have been someone that posted fake stuff on line. Do you read Russian?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Guard View Post
Where is that from? I would like a source. A real source.
I had to dig for that one, because when I thought about it, it was actually coming from the English-speaking site, not the Russian one ( where I've read the original files.) So the basis for this claim was that during autopsy they found blood in her stomach ( which was described as a "mass of dark red color." ( So those who read the autopsy assumed that it was blood, particularly that doctors stated that she received all her deadly injuries while she was still alive.)

Quote:
Why can you not find them online anymore? It would be an anomaly for stuff like this to disappear as there are thousands if not millions of people that wish it were so easy to get rid of information made available on the Internet.
You can. I see a lot of bits and pieces ( the results of autopsy and the accounts of original witnesses including.) What I can't find though, is that ORIGINAL file that I saw years ago, with pages and pages of it combined together.

Quote:
I have a tent, am I experienced Greg? But seriously, they may have been fairly experienced but I do not think they were pros, even if that mattered. George Mallory was more experienced than anyone on this trip and died climbing Everest.
This particular trip was considered as "Category III" which was the most difficult one by the standards of "Sport tourism" in the USSR at the end of the 50ies. So these people wouldn't be approved for it, unless their sport club/overseers wouldn't deem them qualified for the task.

Quote:
You have to respect the team that can tell by weeks old frozen urine who was inside and outside the tent at the exact moment that started the event. That is pro level forensics. CSI Dyatlov.
Not sure what "CSI" stands for, but this was the account(s) of at least two different investigators that arrived first on the scene. It's still in the files - I can see it. Overall - yes, the search was extensive, both the professionals and military were involved, particularly when they discovered the rest of the bodies and realized that it was not just an "accident," ""negligence" and what's not, but something far more sinister than that.

Quote:
This is the theory I believe, minus the frozen urine.
Traces of urine, ( and the flash light on top of the tent) - that's the description in the files.

Quote:
They had beds?
Well sleeping bags or their warm jackets - whatever they slept on.

Quote:
I have never seen anything that stated this. There seem to be at least 2 groups as well. It makes sense they would try to stick together, but I am skeptical they were walking in each others footprints.
There was one group - 9 people, and they left the tent in organized manner, staying very close to each other.
But it looks like in the process of whatever happened to them, they became separated into two groups. I suspect they didn't do it volunteerly, but rather they lost each other while escaping from whatever it was.


Quote:
At least we agree on something, though I am skeptical that there are real files that are no longer available. I believe there may have been someone that posted fake stuff on line. Do you read Russian?
Yes, I see the original files here and there, but as I've said I don't see them in such full volume as I saw them once before - pages and pages of it.

P.S. Yes, I am talking about the files in original language - in Russian; with the results of autopsies, the articles from the local newspapers, the opinions of investigation teams and so on.

Last edited by erasure; 09-05-2017 at 09:25 PM..
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:18 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes I remember, and I added few details there.



Not only that, but according to the medical expertise, her tongue "went missing" while she was still alive.




About 7-8 years ago, a friend inquired about it. I've never heard about it before, so I did my little "research" and found the ORIGINAL files in Russian on-line, which were still available, the pictures of medical expertise including. They were very detailed, very extensive. You won't find them on-line any longer, only "new versions" that are full of BS and have little to do with the ORIGINAL story.



No, no, and no. It was VERY experienced team, well-prepared for a trip, with adequate clothing and equipment ( tent including.) I can add couple of interesting details here. According to the first search crew ( there were two of them total - the first one decided that it was an "unfortunate situation," while the second one, that came searching later, already realized that it was not just a "mishap," when they discovered the rest of the dead bodies.) So according to the first search team, couple of guys from the tent were out early in the morning to "take a leak." ( They found the traces of urine and a flash-light somewhere on top of the tent I believe.) So what the search team assumed, was that these two saw something, and alerted the rest of the group. When they did, there was no much time to get ready - it was something extremely urgent ( and frightening I assume.) So they had literally to jump out of their beds, pull the clothes on ( they were missing some shoes, apparently,) and run for their lives. Their heavy tent was long, because it was stitched from TWO tents, so in order to get out faster, one of them had to cut it from inside. Once they were out however, they were very organized, and left the location following each other's steps - the way the experienced hikers/skiers are taught to do. (As I've said they all had extensive experience in tourism, through their local club.) So the search team said that judging by the tracks on the snow, they accounted for all of them, the whole group, making it out from the tent and to the end of the slope. But at the end of that slope their tracks were already lost.




Of course. That's why all these latest *stories* regarding the whole Dyatlov's Pass incident are nonsense. It's almost like someone is coming up with all this nonsense deliberately, while the original files are nowhere to be found any longer.
OK, so you're saying that the more recent versions of the story are nothing like the original version that you read, from the actual medical files. Because when there was a thread on it a few yrs. ago, I researched it, but I don't recall now what I was reading. I'm sure it wasn't the same material you read. So, according to your reading, what happened to them, after they were walking, following each others' tracks (to where?) ? What I read said that a few were clustered in one direction, with their clothes off. The tent had been cut with a knife, as you said. Others were elsewhere, I don't recall the details.

edit: Here, I just found this. After describing what investigators found, it presents a plausible explanation for what happened. It makes a lot of sense.

https://amnationalistcouncil.wordpre...ystery-solved/

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 09-05-2017 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
OK, so you're saying that the more recent versions of the story are nothing like the original version that you read, from the actual medical files.
Yes, the "recent versions" became practically unrecognizable ( some "yeti" including lol,) comparably to what I've read in original files ( medical files including. Those are still available - I think I found them.)

Quote:
Because when there was a thread on it a few yrs. ago, I researched it, but I don't recall now what I was reading. I'm sure it wasn't the same material you read. I think everything I read was in English, but I don't remember.

So, according to your reading, what happened to them, after they were walking, following each others' tracks (to where?) ? What I read said that a few were clustered in one direction, with their clothes off. The tent had been cut with a knife, as you said. Others were elsewhere, I don't recall the details.
From the description of it, they were simply escaping from the tent ( or whatever was around it.)
Then I think they've got separated by whatever force have chased them away, and it looks like the FIRST group ( that was still closer to a tent) was still hoping to return there.
Yes, the tent was cut from inside - from what I remember a girl that stitched two tents together per request of Dyatlov ( that's what he wanted) was the first one to point at it, because originally the investigators made a guess that there was an intruder.

Quote:
And remind me, please: when did this happen?
In 1959, that's why it's mind-boggling for me, that they described the paranormal events in the local newspaper back then ( can you imagine Soviet Russia at that point in history?) - I think there were even two articles there on a subject, because too many people in the area saw the "glowing red orbs" floating in the sky around the time this happened. Not only that, but people in investigation team were saying that they saw them all the time hovering above them, and they were "scared sh*tless" because they believed that those orbs had anything and everything to do with the death of the students.
Not only that, but during the funerals ( and they were very public of course) a lot of people stated that the skin of the deceased was of strange orange color.
Plus of course the level of radiation on their clothes.
So yes, it's one of the strangest paranormal events, ( at least in Russia) that can't be simply dismissed, because so many people were involved/witnessed it.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:02 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Right. Well, one explanation presented later was that they heard a noise at night that made some of them think there might be an avalanche. That's why they cut the tent, and ran out, without getting dressed, or looking for their shoes. (Dumb move, but I guess they were terrified.) A few stayed behind, and took their time to get dressed, and to organize their things, and to leave well-equipped. But on their way to their colleagues, an avalanche did bury that group.

Anyway, you can read the details in the link I provided. It covers all the questions. The radiation on the clothes could have come from the type of wick that was used in their kerosene lanterns.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Right. Well, one explanation presented later was that they heard a noise at night that made some of them think there might be an avalanche. That's why they cut the tent, and ran out, without getting dressed, or looking for their shoes. (Dumb move, but I guess they were terrified.) A few stayed behind, and took their time to get dressed, and to organize their things, and to leave well-equipped.
Huh? No, they ALL left, all 9 of them. No one "stayed behind."

Quote:
But on their way to their colleagues, an avalanche did bury that group.
The injuries that people of the second group have received ( their location was much, much further away from the first group, that's why they were not found until few months later,) had NOTHING to do with avalanche. In fact, this was the whole problem - the kind of injuries they sustained couldn't be explained in any scientific way. They received horrible internal damages without any external damages consistent with case. As in their ribs were crashed in a manner like someone would be crashed by a car. But no consistent external damages, and that's what puzzled the experts.

Anyway, this is the map, so it would be easier to picture the whole event;
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:56 PM
 
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P.S. Ruth, I looked at the article you have provided.
This whole "solved" thing is laughable to say the least.
It's called "dismiss everything that the investigation teams found and make your own statement - "I know what it was, it's really simple."
It's nonsense of course, because the last thing Soviet authorities wanted to hear at that point in time, that the result of investigation was something "paranormal."
So obviously, if it were an "avalanche" or at least something resembling of it, as in "force of nature," they'd happily cling to that. But it was obviously not a case. So all this latest "debunking" is silly to say the least. The first people that would love to *debunk* the whole story were the Soviet authorities themselves. But they couldn't do it as much as they'd love to.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I had to dig for that one, because when I thought about it, it was actually coming from the English-speaking site, not the Russian one ( where I've read the original files.) So the basis for this claim was that during autopsy they found blood in her stomach ( which was described as a "mass of dark red color." ( So those who read the autopsy assumed that it was blood, particularly that doctors stated that she received all her deadly injuries while she was still alive.)
OK, So this is why I am HIGHLY skeptical.

First you say, and I will quote you directly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Not only that, but according to the medical expertise, her tongue "went missing" while she was still alive.
What you just posted does not support your original claim quoted above. Lyudmila Dubinina had some severe injuries including broken ribs and internal hemorrhaging. This could have been the cause of the blood in her stomach. This is like a game of telephone, one person says one thing and by the end the original message is completely changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
You can. I see a lot of bits and pieces ( the results of autopsy and the accounts of original witnesses including.) What I can't find though, is that ORIGINAL file that I saw years ago, with pages and pages of it combined together.
I have seen alleged links to it in the past but I do not read Russian. I will say just because you cannot find it now does not mean it is not out there. The hard part is that in recent years there has been a fair amount of interest in this incident so there is naturally a lot of websites and mentions of it on the web. This sometimes helps things hide in plain site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
This particular trip was considered as "Category III" which was the most difficult one by the standards of "Sport tourism" in the USSR at the end of the 50ies. So these people wouldn't be approved for it, unless their sport club/overseers wouldn't deem them qualified for the task.
Sport tourism does not make it sound overly impossible, it makes it sound like you should not be doing this without experience. I am not sure what the experience of all the members was, I have seen statements that make it sound like not all of the party were the most experienced and other statements stating they were all the best of the best. Personally I doubt that many, if any, were capable of summiting Everest so I have a hard time believing they were considered the best mountaineers.

But none of that really matters as highly experienced, well financed and supplied mountaineers do die. So to me it is just a red herring. "Look they were experienced mountain climbers so it must have been an external parties fault". No, life does not work that way. Mount Everest has around 200 bodies on it. Over 130 people have died on Mount Hood since records have been kept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Not sure what "CSI" stands for, but this was the account(s) of at least two different investigators that arrived first on the scene. It's still in the files - I can see it. Overall - yes, the search was extensive, both the professionals and military were involved, particularly when they discovered the rest of the bodies and realized that it was not just an "accident," ""negligence" and what's not, but something far more sinister than that.
Do you have a link to the official files that say this? Can you translate exactly please? What did they state was the cause? Aliens? Yeti? The military?

Why do other investigators not mention this? This is a game changer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Traces of urine, ( and the flash light on top of the tent) - that's the description in the files.
So? This does not support your claim. Of course there is urine around a tent of campers. I have actually urinated in the woods myself a few times. I have made yellow snow. It is not a clock. You have no idea of knowing if the people were attacked while they were outside peeing or if they peed and then fled. Also a flashlight on top of the tent does not mean it happened when they were urinating or could have even happened in the hurry as they fled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Well sleeping bags or their warm jackets - whatever they slept on.

There was one group - 9 people, and they left the tent in organized manner, staying very close to each other.
What would be unusual about this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
But it looks like in the process of whatever happened to them, they became separated into two groups. I suspect they didn't do it volunteerly, but rather they lost each other while escaping from whatever it was.
It does not matter what we suspect. They separated. It does not mean that anything was chasing them or that nothing was chasing them.

Did they find the tracks of what was chasing them? That would be a game changer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yes, I see the original files here and there, but as I've said I don't see them in such full volume as I saw them once before - pages and pages of it.

Well there have been people that looked at all of the files they can find and none of them that I have seen have stated that Lyudmila Dubinina had her tongue removed while she was alive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
P.S. Yes, I am talking about the files in original language - in Russian; with the results of autopsies, the articles from the local newspapers, the opinions of investigation teams and so on.
Well I am glad that your read Russian. Some people claim to read the original files and cannot read the language they were written in, which sets my spidey senses tingling.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Falls Church, Fairfax County
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Huh? No, they ALL left, all 9 of them. No one "stayed behind."
I believe Ruth means that some took some time to get dressed before fleeing.
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
The injuries that people of the second group have received ( their location was much, much further away from the first group, that's why they were not found until few months later,) had NOTHING to do with avalanche.
Just because you flee because you believe there is an immanent avalanche does not mean there is actually an avalanche. Have you never made a mistake? From my understanding their camp was not in the right place, that they did not make it to where they actually wanted to camp and this camping space was believed to be a little exposed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
In fact, this was the whole problem - the kind of injuries they sustained couldn't be explained in any scientific way.
Can you translate the part of the file that says this?

Because it seems like the group that sustained the severe injuries could have sustained them in a fall....
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
They received horrible internal damages without any external damages consistent with case. As in their ribs were crashed in a manner like someone would be crashed by a car. But no consistent external damages, and that's what puzzled the experts.
You mean as if they fell a fair distance?
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Anyway, this is the map, so it would be easier to picture the whole event;
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