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Old 09-28-2017, 08:47 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,566 posts, read 21,741,355 times
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I have always been appalled and haunted by the torture murder of Sylvia Likens, in Indiana, 1965.

16-Year-Old Sylvia Likens Was Abused And Tortured Mercilessly Before Dying In 1965



While the so called ring leader Gertrude Benisewski was not a child, she gave out orders and too pleasure in the torture and starvation. Most of the actual torture - scalding baths, kicking, beating, branding, tattooing, throwing her down the basement stairs repeatedly, burning her with cigarettes and lighters, was carried out by juveniles between the ages of 12-17. Some were her children. Others were neighbors.

If you have not yet seen it, watch "An American Crime" with Ellen Page and Katherine Keener. It is mild compared to what Sylvia endured.
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 464,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I have always been appalled and haunted by the torture murder of Sylvia Likens, in Indiana, 1965.

16-Year-Old Sylvia Likens Was Abused And Tortured Mercilessly Before Dying In 1965



While the so called ring leader Gertrude Benisewski was not a child, she gave out orders and too pleasure in the torture and starvation. Most of the actual torture - scalding baths, kicking, beating, branding, tattooing, throwing her down the basement stairs repeatedly, burning her with cigarettes and lighters, was carried out by juveniles between the ages of 12-17. Some were her children. Others were neighbors.

If you have not yet seen it, watch "An American Crime" with Ellen Page and Katherine Keener. It is mild compared to what Sylvia endured.
That is heartbreaking. I take great comfort that there is a Judgement Day.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:20 AM
 
158 posts, read 48,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
Sometimes the rotten apples just haven't fallen far from the rotten tree. Either the parents refuse to acknowledge the depravity of their children, or they are just as bad. There's a very real thing called "provoking a child to wrath". Little monsters grow up ... and prisons are full.
True..What bothers me is that children are becoming more and more aggressive - news, police reports and other sourced are proving it. I used to work with children at some point in my life. And was scared to death - they fight with such anger, like their were trying to kill each other. Back then we had a case of a violent 9-year old who punched a classmate so hard in the face that the girl passed out. And for what - because she asked him not to touch her things. We tried to talk with the parents and we got the following answer from his mother - "C'on. They are kids. Kids play and such incidents are inevitable." I am pretty sure if someone had hit her son that hard she would be suing.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,030 posts, read 3,263,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I read about a kid whose dad was a hardened criminal. But the child had been raised separately from the dad, so that there wasn't an opportunity for "nurture" input from the dad, vs. "nature". Still, the kid grew up to be like his dad. The theory now is that personality traits or inclinations can be inherited. This is part of the theory of epi-genetics, in which trauma of various sorts can become encoded in the genome.
To a point. As I recall, identical twin studies have shown that a behavioral trait (like depression, schizophrenia, etc) with a genetic component is expressed maybe 40% of the time. Parenting, prenatal environment, stressors, etc make up the rest. That's why it's thought a lot of schizophrenia first shows up in early adulthood associated with major stressors like going to college, getting engaged, getting that first job: there's a developmental weakness in the neuronal connections that's genetically related, and a major stressor taxes the system resulting in a breakdown. At least in some people with the genetic predisposition- others may handle the same stressor just fine. An interesting question from a clinical perspective is: what's different about those who don't have a breakdown?

Same thing with the Bad Seeds. Some kids are more resilient than others and survive. But those who don't avoid problems weren't born bad, didn't choose to be bad, and didn't make a pact with the devil. I'm not saying there isn't such a thing as demonic possession or obsession, but I believe these things are rare and most Bad Seeds can be explained within the biopsychosocial framework I've explained above.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:25 PM
 
3,266 posts, read 2,335,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
To a point. As I recall, identical twin studies have shown that a behavioral trait (like depression, schizophrenia, etc) with a genetic component is expressed maybe 40% of the time. Parenting, prenatal environment, stressors, etc make up the rest. That's why it's thought a lot of schizophrenia first shows up in early adulthood associated with major stressors like going to college, getting engaged, getting that first job: there's a developmental weakness in the neuronal connections that's genetically related, and a major stressor taxes the system resulting in a breakdown. At least in some people with the genetic predisposition- others may handle the same stressor just fine. An interesting question from a clinical perspective is: what's different about those who don't have a breakdown?

Same thing with the Bad Seeds. Some kids are more resilient than others and survive. But those who don't avoid problems weren't born bad, didn't choose to be bad, and didn't make a pact with the devil. I'm not saying there isn't such a thing as demonic possession or obsession, but I believe these things are rare and most Bad Seeds can be explained within the biopsychosocial framework I've explained above.
Whether they chose it or were born with it, the problem is real. What responsibility does a family have if they have a Bad Seed? We are dealing with that right now. It's so sad, but if no one can help her and she continues to get worse, should she be committed somewhere to protect others?

I really don't know, we need answers.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast
1,256 posts, read 464,405 times
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Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Whether they chose it or were born with it, the problem is real. What responsibility does a family have if they have a Bad Seed? We are dealing with that right now. It's so sad, but if no one can help her and she continues to get worse, should she be committed somewhere to protect others?

I really don't know, we need answers.
Yes, the "why" seems quite irrelevant when you're smack in the middle of dealing with one, literally just trying to survive. You are the grandmother of the adopted 9 year old with RAD, correct?

When we realized what we were potentially dealing with in the pre-adoptive stage with the toddler, I did a lot of reading. The stories out there are horrifying. There seems to be no effective solution for dealing with these kids. We knew 100% that we could not bring that into our family. Parents of RAD children face extremely high divorce rates, the mothers are typically the source of ultimate rejection, so bear the greater brunt of the burden. I know I was completely mentally traumatized and exhausted! They are superficially charming to other people, so the mom feels like she's going crazy (I thought I was losing my mind). We learned that 75% of inmates and 85% of death row inmates were foster children ... probably with RAD.

Your family needs professional help.
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,030 posts, read 3,263,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
Whether they chose it or were born with it, the problem is real. What responsibility does a family have if they have a Bad Seed? We are dealing with that right now. It's so sad, but if no one can help her and she continues to get worse, should she be committed somewhere to protect others?

I really don't know, we need answers.
These are really hard questions with no easy answers. If I were faced with what you and other RAD parents are dealing with, I'd look for a behavioral therapist who's experienced and has a good track record dealing with RAD, plus family counseling for dealing with the systemic issues involved with parenting a RAD child. Again, I'd look for someone with a good amount of experience.

If you go into google or bing and search for "reactive attachment disorder support" there are a lot of support groups out there. You might try a search for "attachment clinic" to see if there is a clinic that specializes in RAD near you. All the best, I hope you find solutions that will work for all of you!
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:17 PM
 
5,146 posts, read 2,992,030 times
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This looks like an interesting reference -The Scarred Heart : Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill by Dr. Helen Smith

Something I've thought about more than once is non-psychopathic children who have killed a family member. I've never searched for a source of statistics and I'm not sure accurate ones could ever be available.

But I think of all the ways toddlers could cause fatal damage in their impulsivity and curiosity and accidently cause a death that no one would ever know he had involvement with.

The first time I had this realization was when I was standing at the top of our basement steps and had just bent over to pick up a basket of clothes to take down and wash. My maybe three-year-old came rushing from behind, playfully laughing and gave me a push. I realized I could have fell, cracked my head and no one would have ever known my little son had done it. Chilling.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:19 PM
 
3,266 posts, read 2,335,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernProper View Post
Yes, the "why" seems quite irrelevant when you're smack in the middle of dealing with one, literally just trying to survive. You are the grandmother of the adopted 9 year old with RAD, correct?

When we realized what we were potentially dealing with in the pre-adoptive stage with the toddler, I did a lot of reading. The stories out there are horrifying. There seems to be no effective solution for dealing with these kids. We knew 100% that we could not bring that into our family. Parents of RAD children face extremely high divorce rates, the mothers are typically the source of ultimate rejection, so bear the greater brunt of the burden. I know I was completely mentally traumatized and exhausted! They are superficially charming to other people, so the mom feels like she's going crazy (I thought I was losing my mind). We learned that 75% of inmates and 85% of death row inmates were foster children ... probably with RAD.

Your family needs professional help.
Yes, I'm the grandma. It is horrifying. And it's so bizarre because I do love her and want to protect her, she's been with us 5 years. We found out her oldest brother is a fire starter and could never find an adoptive family.
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Old 09-29-2017, 04:24 PM
 
3,266 posts, read 2,335,410 times
Reputation: 5622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
These are really hard questions with no easy answers. If I were faced with what you and other RAD parents are dealing with, I'd look for a behavioral therapist who's experienced and has a good track record dealing with RAD, plus family counseling for dealing with the systemic issues involved with parenting a RAD child. Again, I'd look for someone with a good amount of experience.

If you go into google or bing and search for "reactive attachment disorder support" there are a lot of support groups out there. You might try a search for "attachment clinic" to see if there is a clinic that specializes in RAD near you. All the best, I hope you find solutions that will work for all of you!
Thank you, will continue looking. She's had a therapist for several years and her parents are in support groups, with a lot of other frustrated, scared parents.
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