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Someone on another thread recommended Robert Monroe's books on astral travel, so I got samples on Amazon Kindle and ordered used paperbacks. Expecting the first in the mail today. The three are:
Far Journey, 1992
Journey Out, 1992
Ultimate Journey, 1996
From what I can gather from reading the samples, this is a very calm and convincing exploration of what is a very bizarre thesis. The author is very convincing. There is a Monroe Institute. If--and that is a very big if--this is true, it changes everything.
My sense is that if this material were presented to a Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Bertrand Russell, or Carl Sagan, they would insist it is nonsense and be able to tell why it is nonsense. (Sam Harris, not so sure; he might give it some credence, I don't know).
You'd prob like 'Soul Traveler', Albert Taylor..and Eckankar if there is a group in your town..
Thanks. And I'll check out spiritualforums.com
However, I don't want to leave the impression that I'm some sort of true believer. On the contrary, I'm inclined to skepticism. While keeping at least a semi- open mind.
Registered with spiritualforums.com several days ago, but while I clicked on the email they sent me, I'm still unable to post. Did the developer of the forum pass away? Ironic.
Not interested in Eckankar. See no reason to exchange one bag of nonsense for another, as, for example, converting to Mormonism. Just do not care for organized religion, of any stripe.
Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 11-19-2017 at 04:40 AM..
OP, you can probably tell pretty quickly which posters on Skeptics Forum are idly blowing the concept off, and anyone who raises the possibility that there could be something to the Monroe stuff, and which ones are open-minded enough to experiment with it, and report honestly their findings. The people that run the forum, and the long-term regular posters, are bullies, and when they can't win an argument, they lie about having relevant expertise. Most of them don't have a science background, or are even all that bright. The forum and its admins and some members were investigated by someone who participates here on C-D, who is from the UK, where the forum is based, and they were found to not be who they claimed they were, and not experts of any kind.
So anyway, moving on, the Monroe binaural beat method was the precursor to Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP), which is a therapy modality that works for some people, to relax them, and there are CD's that are for insomnia, which some people find quite helpful. That's all I know. I read a couple of those books, and they sounded REALLY "out there", way out on a limb, but I've run into people who tried the method at his Institute, and they said he wasn't making it all up (it sounded too wild to me to be real), and that there's really something to it.
I haven't tried it, so I can't speak from personal experience. NLP didn't work for my insomnia; I found the C-D's to be a bit weird, a little eery, like someone was whispering secret commands at me from underneath the noise, or something. Also, once I'd heard the C-D a couple of times, it seemed very repetitious and predictable. But I know someone who got good results with the insomnia C-D.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-20-2017 at 04:37 PM..
Initially I thought this stuff might be related to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which I faintly recall is instructions to navigate the afterlife. In the to me unlikely event that there is some sort of spirit body that survives death, and this can be proved by rational means, it really does change everything. But wanting something to be true, out of fear of death or the unknown, is understandable but sort of cowardly. It is not harmless to chose to believe something based on fear.
Oh may suppose that humans have believed in the spirit world since there were humans. Wishful thinking? A primitive attempt to explain natural phenomena? Couldn't psychology and science offer better explanations?
This paranormal stuff is a journey, the same as science is. At our current stage of development the two paths are very different but it does look as if they might be coming closer together as science progresses in its understanding of the Universe and its processes. One is based on hard evidence which can be experienced by anyone who does the experiment and the other is a personal experience which may - or may not - be reproducable in someone else. Currently, it does not make sense to take the methods of one and try to force them onto the other. This is what you are trying to do here.
Science has been around for a relatively short period of time whereas belief systems have been around for ages. In different beliefs, there are similar experiences although they are not called the same name, possibly due to the fact that each belief likes to keep itself distinct and different.
For some people on here, Fear (with a capital 'F') is often about not wanting to be conned, about wanting to be correct in your beliefs, about being certain something is 'true'. However, truth has certain layers and nothing is absolutely true due to our imperfect understanding of things. Yet... folks want perfection, an absolute, which is not possible so some belief or faith has to be there in the mix.
As an example, science believes that an experiment which is performed 1000 times will perform the same way for the next time. If the Universe burps, the experiment will not be the same. We have an incomplete understanding so a factor which we have not taken into account could make the experiment a failure. Unlikely, but possible. Therefore science has beliefs too.
Personally, I believe these OOB things are true. Many people from occult backgrounds have told tales of this kind of thing over the years. Occult, being hidden knowledge, that is. Thousands of people have reported OOB journeys before being revived in the hospital. Does science believe them? Maybe, but it is not proven. There are numerous tales of shamans being able to take on the shapes of animals etc and there is so much about our Universe we just do not understand yet. To rule out something on the basis that it cannot be reproduced in a lab is perhaps limiting in the extreme. However, scientist people do it, so there are those who believe if it cannot be reproduced multiple times then it is not 'valid' and proven and has no 'basis' by scientific methodology - whatever 'valid' and 'basis' means.
Basically, you yourself have to believe or not. If you are that bothered, then do an independent investigation of your own to convince yourself of the veracity of the statements the Monroe Institute make. Go on a course or two and find out if the techniques work for you. However, if they do, it does not mean they will for everyone. If they do not work for you, then likewise it does not mean they will not work for everyone. Science of the mind (not brain) is something which is not of the physical. (I know you will love that phrase)
It happened to me once during a guided meditation when I was in my teens. The phone rang and I dropped about 1,000 miles back into my body. I could never make it happen again.
Exploring the web page about the program at the Monroe Institute in Virginia. $2,195 is not that much for the nearly week long experience. If anyone has done this, I'd love to hear about it.
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