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Old 01-01-2018, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,614 posts, read 9,018,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
I've never seen a trail camera in anyplace even remotely approaching what an objective observer might call wilderness. In fact, I've never seen one on any public land anywher. I've never seem a hiker with a cell phone in hand either. There are neither security cameras nor traffic cameras outside of municipalities, most of them large cities. I say this as a man who has lived in rural areas for almost his entire adult life.
You mean to say that no Big Foot hunter ever placed a trail camera in any remote location! This group is dying to prove their point and it isn't happening. Also, as far as cellphones, just because people do not have a signal; it does not mean they left their cellphones home. They might not have one in their hand; but it is probably close by. Sometimes law enforcement has used drones over remote areas to spot fugitives. Big Foot hunters have also used all the latest technology trying to get that one film/picture that will make them famous. Then you still have the 5,000 commercial airplanes in the sky at any given time over the US. I know that many are at altitudes where they do not 'see' anything - but not all. I have no idea how many private planes are in our skies at a given time? While you can say that it is impossible to see animals when leaves are on the trees; some of our forest lose all their leaves in the Fall and Winter. Snow would highlight any large brown animal moving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
I assume that these numbers include the whole world although they seem excessive even for that. Again, these numbers would apply primarily to big cities. You live in a county with a population density of 274 per sq. mile; I live in a county with a population density of 4 per sq. mile. There is a difference. Bigfoot, if he exists, is a creature who lives in quiet and remote areas. He is not hiding in suburbia.
Yes; they are world wide statistics - that is what Google provided. But if we have 1.3 million people that die each year on our roads (that figure does count motorist); would somebody not think that one Big Foot animal would make a mistake? Believers want us to think that every single Big Foot is smarter than 1.3 million of us? Actually they would even have to be smarter since no Big Foot has ever been picked up off the side of a road! As far as living quietly, in remote areas, how do you explain all the sightings in most of our States? They had to travel, if they really do exist, and that would expose them to traffic.

The burden of proof is on the believers - if they want us to believe. You have no tangible proof after all these years and all of the hunts. You need a body or body parts or even scat or hair. What we get is a 'sound in the night' or the 'cracked branch'. From your response it sounds as if you have spent many hours in the woods. Where is your scientific proof to back up your argument?
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
7,976 posts, read 8,868,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
You mean to say that no Big Foot hunter ever placed a trail camera in any remote location! This group is dying to prove their point and it isn't happening. Also, as far as cellphones, just because people do not have a signal; it does not mean they left their cellphones home. They might not have one in their hand; but it is probably close by. Sometimes law enforcement has used drones over remote areas to spot fugitives. Big Foot hunters have also used all the latest technology trying to get that one film/picture that will make them famous. Then you still have the 5,000 commercial airplanes in the sky at any given time over the US. I know that many are at altitudes where they do not 'see' anything - but not all. I have no idea how many private planes are in our skies at a given time? While you can say that it is impossible to see animals when leaves are on the trees; some of our forest lose all their leaves in the Fall and Winter. Snow would highlight any large brown animal moving.



Yes; they are world wide statistics - that is what Google provided. But if we have 1.3 million people that die each year on our roads (that figure does count motorist); would somebody not think that one Big Foot animal would make a mistake? Believers want us to think that every single Big Foot is smarter than 1.3 million of us? Actually they would even have to be smarter since no Big Foot has ever been picked up off the side of a road! As far as living quietly, in remote areas, how do you explain all the sightings in most of our States? They had to travel, if they really do exist, and that would expose them to traffic.

Many don't believe that the wolverine exists. None has ever been hit by a vehicle; supposed sightings are very rare.

Happy New Year. Perhaps we'll meet again on a forum.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,614 posts, read 9,018,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Many don't believe that the wolverine exists. None has ever been hit by a vehicle; supposed sightings are very rare.

Happy New Year. Perhaps we'll meet again on a forum.
Even when Utah did not spot any Wolverines for two years one still got hit and killed by a car: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...r-in-Utah.html. How may crows do you see dead on the side of the road? I came around a corner and hit two of them one time. Vehicles are dangerous and have enough energy to kill some of the largest creatures in North America.

I am sure we will meet again. Happy New Year to you!
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:32 PM
Status: "Miss mom" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
2,815 posts, read 1,116,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
About ten years ago my wife and I spotted a mountain lion in northeastern PA. We were in our pickup truck and, when I first saw the animal standing in a dirt road about two hundred yards away, I thought it was a coyote. I asked my wife to hang on and I tried to get close enough to get a better look. We chased the animal down the dirt road at 35 mph. We got to within 20 yards of it before it jumped into our tall red brush on the side of the road and disappeared. We clearly saw the cat's gate and long tail and both of us knew we had just followed a large cat.

When we returned home I immediately called our Game Commission to report our sighting. They basically treated me as if I was drinking. They did not believe me and their argument was that, with our busy roads, they have no carcasses. It is a good argument; all animals eventually make mistakes - even humans. .
It would be a good argument.

Unless you were talking about cats.

Because cats rarely get "caught with their pants down" so to speak. What are your observations around your urban/suburban neighborhood? What kind of roadkill do you see? Lots of squirrels. Bunnies. Sadly, sometimes a pet dog. Occasionally but rarely ... a cat.

Even our non-feral, domesticated pet cats; rarely get hit by a car. Now consider the wildcat. Unless it is actively killing its prey, it will not be distracted from seeing/hearing/smelling you first.

I live in a part of the country with one of the largest mountain lion populations in North America. Part of their territory extends right through city limits & into the heart of a city of over a half a million residents.

We don't have mountain lion roadkill. Or more accurately; in a state that had 425 wildlife collisions in 2016: 1 involved a cat. A Bobcat, specifically. Our Dept of Wildlife will be the first to tell you that the business of cats ... is to see you first.

https://www.codot.gov/programs/envir...-2016.pdf/view
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Old 01-01-2018, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,614 posts, read 9,018,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
It would be a good argument.

Unless you were talking about cats.

Because cats rarely get "caught with their pants down" so to speak. What are your observations around your urban/suburban neighborhood? What kind of roadkill do you see? Lots of squirrels. Bunnies. Sadly, sometimes a pet dog. Occasionally but rarely ... a cat.

Even our non-feral, domesticated pet cats; rarely get hit by a car. Now consider the wildcat. Unless it is actively killing its prey, it will not be distracted from seeing/hearing/smelling you first.

I live in a part of the country with one of the largest mountain lion populations in North America. Part of their territory extends right through city limits & into the heart of a city of over a half a million residents.

We don't have mountain lion roadkill. Or more accurately; in a state that had 425 wildlife collisions in 2016: 1 involved a cat. A Bobcat, specifically. Our Dept of Wildlife will be the first to tell you that the business of cats ... is to see you first.

https://www.codot.gov/programs/envir...-2016.pdf/view
I used to spend 100,000 miles/year on the road as a commercial truck driver and I did see dead cats. I agree that I did not see as many as dead dogs. What amazed me is how many birds of prey made a mistake on our roads. Hawks and owls focus on their prey and misjudge the speed of trucks and cars.

But this argument is about a creature that many have talked about for scores of years and never one dead animal, not parts of an animal, no scat and no hair. You also are not talking about just in the US; you are talking about anyplace in the world.

When I drove truck I used to love to look for wildlife to pass the time. Many of our interstate highways run parallel to our hills and mountains. Many of those hills and mountains are covered with deciduous trees that lose their leaves in the colder months. When snow covers those hills I could see animals a long ways away. You can see tracks a long ways away in fresh snow. It is just very hard for me to believe that any large animal can remain so elusive all of these years. I cannot see how it could possibly happen.
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:53 PM
Status: "Miss mom" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
2,815 posts, read 1,116,783 times
Reputation: 8985
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I used to spend 100,000 miles/year on the road as a commercial truck driver and I did see dead cats. I agree that I did not see as many as dead dogs. What amazed me is how many birds of prey made a mistake on our roads. Hawks and owls focus on their prey and misjudge the speed of trucks and cars.

But this argument is about a creature that many have talked about for scores of years and never one dead animal, not parts of an animal, no scat and no hair. You also are not talking about just in the US; you are talking about anyplace in the world.

When I drove truck I used to love to look for wildlife to pass the time. Many of our interstate highways run parallel to our hills and mountains. Many of those hills and mountains are covered with deciduous trees that lose their leaves in the colder months. When snow covers those hills I could see animals a long ways away. You can see tracks a long ways away in fresh snow. It is just very hard for me to believe that any large animal can remain so elusive all of these years. I cannot see how it could possibly happen.
I understand; it’s actually counterintuitive. And I’ve never seen a Bigfoot, nor do I yearn to ... it’s always been a “meh” sort of thing for me.

I’m surprised about the birds you saw, that’s interesting. I almost wrecked my car one night when an owl dropped down to grab something off the road right in front of me but it went back up almost as fast as it came down. It took a lot of self-control to hold steady on my wheel ... owls can be pretty big, it may as well have been a human body falling from the sky. Kinda cool, actually.

And around here we have these Crows (ravens?) that I call the “adolescent boys of the animal world”: They are loud & obnoxious, show-offs, “stunt”-flyers... & they will NOT fly off until the very last minute, even when you are pointed right at them in a car. It’s like they think they are indestructible & willing to prove it over a random French-fry.

But the reason I’m willing to consider that humans, especially “the experts”, are missing something, is that I saw something impossible about 10 years ago. As in an animal ... but impossible. I went into denial for about a year & when I allowed myself to consider it, I had to slowly cover each “If”, one at a time, using science: “If that was real; what would it eat” ... “where would it sleep” ...”what evidence would it leave behind that could be viably attributed to something else” ...

It took years. Years of reading archived news reports, scientific journals, satellite imagery & even law enforcement records . Stuff I have never had any interest in AT ALL ... like digestive enzymes & the evolutionary process of tapetum lucidum (eye shine). It boiled down to that it couldn’t be scientifically dis-proven.

And then I told my family “I saw this”. That’s why I sort of honed in on your mountain lion analogy. Although nobody can scientifically prove there was one, the “proof” that there wasn’t one, isn’t scientific. Anecdotal, maybe.

The problem with Bigfoot/Yeti would be that people really want it to be real. There are thousands of supposed assertions or “evidence” & many have been disproven.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
10,614 posts, read 9,018,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
The problem with Bigfoot/Yeti would be that people really want it to be real. There are thousands of supposed assertions or “evidence” & many have been disproven.
Anecdotal does not = true. Right after the election half the Country thought that Hillary was President - it did not make it true. Many cite government conspiracies about Big Foot; that does not mean it is true. What is true is that the believers are desperate for any evidence to support their beliefs. We also have to sort out those that have a vested interest in perpetuating the myth. Just because people want to sell a book; is not evidence.

There is no creature, that we can see at night, that we cannot see better in the daylight. We can imagine better at night; but we cannot prove better at night.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Maine
13,472 posts, read 18,198,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Many don't believe that the wolverine exists.
I have never met anyone who doesn't believe the wolverine exists. And unlike Bigfoot, we have way more than blobverine photos.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Maine
13,472 posts, read 18,198,580 times
Reputation: 14766
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
But the reason I’m willing to consider that humans, especially “the experts”, are missing something, is that I saw something impossible about 10 years ago. As in an animal ... but impossible.
I totally respect that. Which is why when it comes to a lot of these supposed sightings, it makes far more sense to me to not discount the supernatural than to try to hammer a square peg into the round hole of hundreds of years of scientific fact.

I think most Bigfoot sightings are explainable by hoaxes, wishful thinking, or mistaken identity. Those that can't be explained by such ... ?

To me, the supernatural seems the most likely explanation until further facts come to light.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:32 PM
 
Location: In the basket
8,133 posts, read 9,732,748 times
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There’s nothing supernatural about it.
Either it’s an “undiscovered” animal, or one of the most incredible cases of perpetual mass mistaken identity and wild imagination. And hoaxing.
I used to believe there was a possibly if it being an undiscovered animal, but I’ve all but written the whole phenomena off as mistaken identity and hoaxing.
In this day and age and the popularity of searching for this thing, something concrete should have been found by now.
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