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Old 01-23-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,025 posts, read 3,254,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Whats so strange about that? So what, they were big reptilian creatures that existed at one time...we all accept that dinosaurs once existed, why not something else that is similar? Breathing fire is not exactly a magical thing either, combination of natural chemicals/ glands, could produce fire, theres even a bug today that can create a small firey explosion.
Except there's absolutely no fossil evidence that big reptilian creatures existed in areas where there are stories of dragons. And no evidence fossil or living of any organism other than the bombardier beetle creating a small hot explosion (which is not fiery at all by the way, it's superheated steam). We accept that dinosaurs and ancient reptiles once existed because there's actual irrefutable evidence that they did. Show me the same for dragons and we'll talk.

What you have in many cases are people finding dinosaur or mammoth bones, and believing they're dragons who have lived into historical times (see my post above). Someone tells a story about a dragon (like the St George story which probably originated in Georgia, and it passes into the culture's mythology - the conquering of the dragon is a spiritual story, not intended to be taken as history in a modern sense). In China, "dragon bones" and "dragon teeth" (from fossils) are used in traditional medicine.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Whats so strange about that? So what, they were big reptilian creatures that existed at one time...we all accept that dinosaurs once existed, why not something else that is similar? Breathing fire is not exactly a magical thing either, combination of natural chemicals/ glands, could produce fire, theres even a bug today that can create a small firey explosion.
Please tell us about the bug causing fiery explosions.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,448 posts, read 10,104,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
...Breathing fire is not exactly a magical thing either...
Breathing fire isn't a biologically feasible process.

Last edited by Dirt Grinder; 01-23-2018 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:49 PM
 
4,979 posts, read 7,749,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Whats so strange about that? So what, they were big reptilian creatures that existed at one time...we all accept that dinosaurs once existed, why not something else that is similar? Breathing fire is not exactly a magical thing either, combination of natural chemicals/ glands, could produce fire, theres even a bug today that can create a small firey explosion.
Yes, comparing a fire-breathing dragon with an insect is a pretty strange comparison. With regard to the bug, the bombardier beetle can "fire" (as in shooting out) a hot vapor about 100 degrees Celcius/212 degrees Fahrenheit. It isn't a fire nor is it an explosion. It's a hot, noxious, chemical, vaporous spray that's ejected out in a small amount as a defense. The beetle is able to target the spray.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

To create fire is a whole different matter. You need three things to create fire: (1) fuel, (2) oxygen and (3) heat. If a fire-breathing dragon could actually eject fire, how would it avoid searing the soft tissues of its esophagus as well as the inside of its mouth? Nearly all images portraying dragons show them to be reptilian creatures. A dragon would definitely not be the same thing as an insect.

Last of all, areas with legends about dragons in the past is something to consider in terms of the likelihood such beasts ever existed. Dragons would have to have had a population significant enough for breeding. That would mean dragon bones or fossils should be in the areas where the legends originated. In China, powdered dragon bones are used as an ingredient for certain traditional medicines. Turns out these "dragon bones" are not dragons, but fossils of dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals, none of which were dragons.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ina-dinos.html
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Please tell us about the bug causing fiery explosions.
Verification that the explosions are not fiery - it's actually a beetle rather than a bug (bugs have sucking mouth parts), and it sprays a boiling hot spray of irritating liquid:

https://youtu.be/TgqF-ND2XcY
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Old 01-23-2018, 04:55 PM
 
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I like to think people saw seahorses, and thought about them as babies. Baby dragons. Lots of similarities.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
I like to think people saw seahorses, and thought about them as babies. Baby dragons. Lots of similarities.
The scientific name doesn't mean dragon , but it means horse+sea monster. I' m more inclined to think of them this way because they're aquatic whereas the dragon is terrestrial. Dragon is from Greek δράκο (serpent). Early writers considered the dragon to be a large, usually the largest, serpent.

Among the seahorses listed in the appended link, you'll notice the date of the first scientific description is 1810. This surprised me because Linnaeus described just about all known species of animals in 1758 in Systema Naturae. That means that the seahorse must have been unknown at the time when Linnaeus wrote. At that date, dragons had entered the realm of the fabulous.

The seahorse isn't the only aquatic horse. We also have the hippopotamus or river horse: ἴππος (hippos: horse) + πόταμος (potamos: river).

There's good bit of information on the link with many further links to individual species.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seahorse
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
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This article has some older illustrations of sea serpents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_serpent

William Hope Hodgson penned an excellent novel on the sea serpent. The Kindle version is currently free.

https://www.amazon.com/Boats-Glen-Ca...ustomerReviews
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:50 AM
 
6,069 posts, read 1,478,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Yes, comparing a fire-breathing dragon with an insect is a pretty strange comparison. With regard to the bug, the bombardier beetle can "fire" (as in shooting out) a hot vapor about 100 degrees Celcius/212 degrees Fahrenheit. It isn't a fire nor is it an explosion. It's a hot, noxious, chemical, vaporous spray that's ejected out in a small amount as a defense. The beetle is able to target the spray.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle

To create fire is a whole different matter. You need three things to create fire: (1) fuel, (2) oxygen and (3) heat. If a fire-breathing dragon could actually eject fire, how would it avoid searing the soft tissues of its esophagus as well as the inside of its mouth? Nearly all images portraying dragons show them to be reptilian creatures. A dragon would definitely not be the same thing as an insect.

Last of all, areas with legends about dragons in the past is something to consider in terms of the likelihood such beasts ever existed. Dragons would have to have had a population significant enough for breeding. That would mean dragon bones or fossils should be in the areas where the legends originated. In China, powdered dragon bones are used as an ingredient for certain traditional medicines. Turns out these "dragon bones" are not dragons, but fossils of dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals, none of which were dragons.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ina-dinos.html
Maybe dragons of the past shot out very hot gases like that beetle and people depicted it as fire and eventually it became fire breathing?

In regards to the dinosaur bones, maybe dragons WERE a type of dinosaur, they are pretty close in descriptions. Many people do believe there was a point when SOME dinosaurs existed at the same time as men, its not that far a stretch imo.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,025 posts, read 3,254,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Maybe dragons of the past shot out very hot gases like that beetle and people depicted it as fire and eventually it became fire breathing?
Some ground beetles expel noxious chemicals for self defense, and the bombardier beetle takes that to an extreme. Its relatives all have paired pygidial glands, and some of them use them to expel noxious or caustic substances.

There are absolutely no reptiles, dinosaurs, or mammals that have evolved a similar mechanism, no evolutionary relatives or precursors living or extinct that might rationally lead via natural selection to a reptile or dinosaur expelling boiling hot liquid from one or more of its orifices. In the bombardier beetles, you have pygidial glands holding the chemicals and the rectum for a mixing chamber - there's no equivalent in these higher animals.

Quote:
In regards to the dinosaur bones, maybe dragons WERE a type of dinosaur, they are pretty close in descriptions. Many people do believe there was a point when SOME dinosaurs existed at the same time as men, its not that far a stretch imo.
Except for the birds, they were wiped out in the Cretaceous extinction event, thanks to an asteroid impact, volcanism, or both. But it appears they had been declining for up to 40 million years before the extinction event, due to environmental pressures (and maybe those pesky critters called mammals eating their eggs).

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...osaurs/478668/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...ur-extinction/

Could some dinosaurs other than the birds survived? Maybe - but even so, the huge stretch is claiming they were blowing boiling hot fluids out of their mouths or rear ends. Unfortunately, searches for the most likely survivors, the Loch Ness Monster and mokele-mbembe, have so far turned up nothing.
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