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Old 09-04-2018, 02:42 PM
Status: "Scram gravy ain't wavy" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,457 posts, read 3,566,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
No, he wasn't. Every "priest" they ever worked with were either non-Catholic or schismatic. Nothing about the Warrens was ever officially sanctioned by the Church. They sometimes claimed they were, but this is only another example of their … um, "inventive" relationship with the truth.
I think most of the "Catholic" priests they and the TV shows employ for "exorcisms" are with sedevacantist sects:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedevacantism

We don't have a pope in the Orthodox church, but there are simllar sects like HOCNA (which split off from ROCOR) that claim everyone else's apostolic succession is wonky.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:05 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,575,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
No, he wasn't. Every "priest" they ever worked with were either non-Catholic or schismatic. Nothing about the Warrens was ever officially sanctioned by the Church. They sometimes claimed they were, but this is only another example of their … um, "inventive" relationship with the truth.
Definitely read claims of training through the church, though I couldnt tell you where. Took a quick look on wiki:

Edward was a World War II United States Navy veteran and former police officer who became a self-taught and self-professed demonologist, author, and lecturer.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
Definitely read claims of training through the church, though I couldnt tell you where.
The Warrens "claimed" lots of things.

The Catholic Church does not train laity as exorcists. Only priests can be exorcists, and they can only do it with the authority granted them by a bishop. Ed's claims to have been trained as an exorcist by the Church are just more snake oil.
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Old 09-04-2018, 08:10 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgode View Post
I don't believe experiences they've written of to be false, ( or didnt) but have an issue with what appears to me to be a contradiction.

Heres the latest update on their museum.

[I]The Occult Museum is closed due to zoning regulations we are seeking a new location for the museum[/i]

This is from museum online site in regards to Annabelle:

One of their most famous artifacts The Annabelle Doll will be on exhibit. Annabelle is believed to be responsible for the death of an individual who came in to contact with it.. This doll also reportedly slashed a grown man several times across the chest,.She terrorized a family for months until the Warrens and a an Episcopal priest were called in and an exorcism was performed. Although Annabelle has been exorcised several times it is believed that some energy is still attached to this doll.


Warrens are devout Catholics; we know Ed was trained in demonolgy through the church. Does a glass case, the one Annabelles enclosed in keep the demonic remaining energy away?

Something here isnt passing my sniff test.

My sniff test is activated as well, especially when it comes to the glass case as a barrier for demons. In their belief system, glass would do nothing to prevent a demon from escaping. I seem to remember reading that they have teams of people who pray over their "demonic objects".

It'd a bit troubling that they have put objects that they deem "evil" or "demonic" on display and charge for viewing them - or did.


OTOH, the Warrens have a passion for demonology, and have figured out ways to earn a living with their passion. No one is forced to buy their books, hear them lecture, visit their museum or watch movies made from their experiences.


Unlike Fundamentalist televangelists, they do not have infomercials hawing oils or a special cloth that promise to rid your home of demons if you "partner" with them and have $100 removed from your bank account each month. The televangelists are extortionists and prey upon poor and often elderly individuals.

Again, while I do not agree with every teaching of the Warrens, and I am not a Catholic, or a traditionalist Christian, I think the Warrens are essentially honest people who believe what they teach.
I could be wrong, but I do not see them as hucksters.


ETA - yes, I am aware that Ed Warren has passed on. When I say "The Warrens" I am speaking about the books, and other enterprises that were done by both of them as a couple and that continue to generate revenue for their estate.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,908 posts, read 20,414,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
OTOH, the Warrens have a passion for demonology, and have figured out ways to earn a living with their passion. No one is forced to buy their books, hear them lecture, visit their museum or watch movies made from their experiences.
I think they are very entertaining in the same way that I love to watch Jack Van Impe or Benny Hinn. They're a hoot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
... I think the Warrens are essentially honest people who believe what they teach. I could be wrong, but I do not see them as hucksters.
The Warrens were graduates of the George Costanza College of Ethics and Sincerity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:24 AM
Status: "Scram gravy ain't wavy" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,457 posts, read 3,566,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
The Catholic Church does not train laity as exorcists. Only priests can be exorcists, and they can only do it with the authority granted them by a bishop. Ed's claims to have been trained as an exorcist by the Church are just more snake oil.
If the Warrens were trained as exorcists by a "Catholic", it was likely someone like the late Bishop Robert McKenna - a sedevacantist fairly well known in the paranormal community. I've been unable to determine what parish the Warrens attended or find an "official" statement by the Roman Catholics regarding their status. That's kind of curious.

For those who don't know, sedevacantists are not part of the Roman Catholic Church - they mostly split off from the church in the wake of Vatican II though there are older groups like the Old Catholics who split off in the 19th century over Vatican I. You see some of the paranormal shows calling in priests for exorcisms - these are invariably clergy from a sedevacantist sect. But of course, a Zak Bagans or his audience isn't going to know the difference.

Basically, anyone can call themselves anything - but that doesn't mean it's true. There is a Hindu group that sells icons, incense and other goods to Roman Catholics and Orthodox by claiming to be Orthodox; they call themselves "Monastery Icons". An Orthodox temple I attended years ago had some of their icons on the walls until someone in the parish told him about their history. Here are Roman Catholic and Orthodox articles on the problem posed for the faithful by Monastery Icons:

https://www.aquinasandmore.com/blog/...nastery-icons/
A Word About 'Monastery Icons'
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Old 09-05-2018, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,908 posts, read 20,414,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
If the Warrens were trained as exorcists by a "Catholic", it was likely someone like the late Bishop Robert McKenna - a sedevacantist fairly well known in the paranormal community.
Yup.

See: https://www.ranker.com/list/ed-lorra...stopher-shultz
Every Time Ed & Lorraine Warren Were Exposed As Total Frauds
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:43 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,575,872 times
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From Marks link on the Warrens Annabelle Doll story; coincidently strong resemblence to 1963 episode from Twilight Zone; "Living Doll".


a nursing student received a Raggedy Ann doll from her mother in 1970. When the doll exhibited strange behavior, a medium revealed that the doll was possessed by a dead woman named 'Annabelle Higgins.' The student and her roommate took compassion for the spirit and granted Annabelle permission to reside in the doll. However, when frightening incidents continued to occur, they contacted the Warrens, who declared that 'Annabelle Higgins' was actually a demon."
The demonologists took the doll back to their museum and put in on display for safety's sake. Encased in a glass cabinet with a cross over its head, the doll comes with a warning: "POSITIVELY DO NOT OPEN." Before his death, Ed would apparently warn museum visitors that the last man to mock Annabelle ended up dying in a motorcycle crash, providing no names or evidence to this claim whatsoever. It's a great little ghost story, but the Annabelle legend originates from the Warrens themselves (or, as Laycock points out, from a 1963 episode of The Twilight Zone, in which a woman named Annabelle gives her daughter a doll that comes to life and terrorizes the family).

Twilight Zone "Talky Tina" doll
I couldn’t help but think of Talky Tina when I was watching Annabelle: Creation, which takes us back to the origin tale of the so-called possessed doll that later became the source of evil in the first Conjuring film. It compelled me to watch the 1963 episode titled “Living Doll,” about a young girl named Christie (Tracy Stratford) who was just gifted a new doll that can talk. daughter now has an annoying new toy.
(His wife’s name, by the way, is Annabelle). He doesn’t pay the doll any attention at first, until it somehow senses his coldness toward Christie and begins threatening him.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/birthmo...rors-dolls/amp
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Old 09-05-2018, 01:18 PM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,575,872 times
Reputation: 17965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post

The Warrens were graduates of the George Costanza College of Ethics and Sincerity.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ

Missed that episode, it's true though.
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:34 AM
 
Location: 39 20' 59"N / 75 30' 53"W
16,085 posts, read 23,575,872 times
Reputation: 17965
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
My sniff test is activated as well, especially when it comes to the glass case as a barrier for demons. In their belief system, glass would do nothing to prevent a demon from escaping. I seem to remember reading that they have teams of people who pray over their "demonic objects".

It'd a bit troubling that they have put objects that they deem "evil" or "demonic" on display and charge for viewing them - or did.


OTOH, the Warrens have a passion for demonology, and have figured out ways to earn a living with their passion. No one is forced to buy their books, hear them lecture, visit their museum or watch movies made from their experiences.


Unlike Fundamentalist televangelists, they do not have infomercials hawing oils or a special cloth that promise to rid your home of demons if you "partner" with them and have $100 removed from your bank account each month. The televangelists are extortionists and prey upon poor and often elderly individuals.

Again, while I do not agree with every teaching of the Warrens, and I am not a Catholic, or a traditionalist Christian, I think the Warrens are essentially honest people who believe what they teach.
I could be wrong, but I do not see them as hucksters.


ETA - yes, I am aware that Ed Warren has passed on. When I say "The Warrens" I am speaking about the books, and other enterprises that were done by both of them as a couple and that continue to generate revenue for their estate.
I've taken the Warrens at face value. Only research on their investigations was the Ammityville house discussed in other threads. Defeos lawyer insists he and the Lutzs invented the story over 4 bottles of wine. Says a lot about Defeos lawyer. I'll stand by my beliefs on the house.
Are they sincere? Judging from Annabelle; not entirely. Any descrepancies in their investigations dont change personal thoughts and beliefs on the paranormal.
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