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Old 10-08-2018, 05:23 PM
 
5,703 posts, read 1,268,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
This is almost the same argument against Big Foot with all of the trail cameras. You reach a point where the odds are just too great against something existing when there are so many different ways that these creatures can be filmed or seen on fish finders/sonar. As time moves on; the less likely.

The thing that hard core believers have at their advantage is its impossible to prove a negative. It is within the realm of possibility that Bigfoot is the luckiest organism on earth. Every possible clear photo or video was fumbled by the witness. Bigfoot is always at the right place at the right time not to be seen. And for some reason Bigfoot always chooses routes that do not have trail cams. But the odds of all this together are probably less than me winning the powerball.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,008 posts, read 10,497,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
The thing that hard core believers have at their advantage is its impossible to prove a negative. It is within the realm of possibility that Bigfoot is the luckiest organism on earth. Every possible clear photo or video was fumbled by the witness. Bigfoot is always at the right place at the right time not to be seen. And for some reason Bigfoot always chooses routes that do not have trail cams. But the odds of all this together are probably less than me winning the powerball.

I found the article before; but I cannot find it now. Long ago there was a philosopher that argued that the donkeys on one of Saturn's moons spoke perfect English. Of course there was no way, at that time, anybody could prove the opposite. Of course you would not want evidence that could prove you wrong.

Our 'tools' are changing daily as our world grows smaller. Our oceans still remain mainly unexplored and it is hard to say what we might find in the future.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:48 PM
 
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If he was asked, it would have been that philosopher's responsibility to prove that donkeys existed on that moon since he was the one making the claim. Non-believers don't have to prove anything.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,008 posts, read 10,497,140 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
If he was asked, it would have been that philosopher's responsibility to prove that donkeys existed on that moon since he was the one making the claim. Non-believers don't have to prove anything.

That is not always the true. Believers can be loud and repetitious, charismatic or simply brutal dictators. Sometimes they can win only by persistence. Non-believers, knowing they have nothing to prove, can forfeit the argument. It would be like not showing up in court because you feel you have a winning case.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:46 AM
 
5,703 posts, read 1,268,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
If he was asked, it would have been that philosopher's responsibility to prove that donkeys existed on that moon since he was the one making the claim. Non-believers don't have to prove anything.

That is not how it works. One can claim they saw donkey's on the moon but forgot to take a photo and its up to others to prove them wrong. Even if we one day colonized the moon there might be someone who claims they saw the donkey off in the distance keeping the fable alive.

One can make whatever ridiculous claim they want especially when you use the word believers. Even with something is silly as believing the earth is flat with concrete evidence that it is not there are still people who believe it is flat. All that takes is believing strongly in conspiracies. The earth is flat, we never went to the moon. UFO's and aliens are real. 9/11 was an inside job. Sandy Hook never happened. I could go on and on. If one does not believe the facts then its easy to believe in almost anything.

Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 10-09-2018 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:15 PM
 
3,694 posts, read 7,181,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
That is not always the true. Believers can be loud and repetitious, charismatic or simply brutal dictators. Sometimes they can win only by persistence. Non-believers, knowing they have nothing to prove, can forfeit the argument. It would be like not showing up in court because you feel you have a winning case.
Until believers can show irrefutable proof, they can never win. If you decide to sue your neighbor for property damage, it is you who have to show proof. Do you think the judge or jury will take your side because you are loud, repetitious and persistence but without proof? If a doctor claims that heart diseases are caused by eating spinach, he or she will have to prove that is the case. Do you think his or her peers will believe the claim without proof?

The best way to respond to people claiming fairy tales and fantasy is to ignore them. There is nothing for them to win or for you to lose.

Last edited by davidt1; 10-09-2018 at 03:29 PM..
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,008 posts, read 10,497,140 times
Reputation: 9131
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Until believers can show irrefutable proof, they can never win. If you decide to sue your neighbor for property damage, it is you who have to show proof. Do you think the judge or jury will take your side because you are loud, repetitious and persistence but without proof? If a doctor claims that heart diseases are caused by eating spinach, he or she will have to prove that is the case. Do you think his or her peers will believe the claim without proof?

The best way to respond to people claiming fairy tales and fantasy is to ignore them. There is nothing for them to win or for you to lose.

I just don't believe it is that simply that you can ignore and walk away and win an argument. I know that many of us want to walk away. But when we do the believers take over the forum. Did we win when they have more converts because nobody challenged them? It' like this monster in the lake. There are plenty of rational explanations for why people see things that they do not understand. It could be a bear or female moose swimming or maybe otters. It could also be sturgeons or logs that sometimes will bob to the surface and then sink again. I once saw two large snapping turtles mating on top of the water - unless you were close you would have no idea what you were observing.

We are talking on this forum to find answers. Unless we discuss even the theories/observations that we disagree with; we will never get answers. You learn more from your mistakes than you do from people that agree with you.
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