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Old 01-02-2019, 04:49 PM
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Location: Tennessee
743 posts, read 319,955 times
Reputation: 398

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
That just suggests they may not be entirely 'compatible' with our phones or video recording devices.
Oh yes, that must be what it means.

https://xkcd.com/1235/
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:35 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,770 posts, read 3,058,582 times
Reputation: 2518
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye
All we are doing is speculating because we have no hard data. All I am doing is extrapolating because survival is all we have known. Look at all those that we colonized or exterminated because we portrayed them as too backwards. Of course it was simply a lie to claim justification. In nature the strong or smart win and the weak or stupid fail. I am not arguing morality; only reality. Currently we have all of our eggs in one basket. Many civilizations, if they exist and are close, would see Earth as only an opportunity to increase their odds of survival.

Of course there are many of us that wish aliens are all friendly and willing to share their technology. I am betting that will never happen.
Well, we do have data but it is observations made by the non-scientist, unqualified public and taken in the laboratory of life. It does not fit into the rigid framework of science and so is dismissed as not valid. How is data to be collected then so that it satisfies the scientist community for the 'validity' aspect of science? Personally, I think it is a way to avoid getting into areas which are scientifically uncomfortable because they are difficult to 'study' and make up experiments which prove existence/whatever.

There is usually a reason why nature generates a mutation and normally it is to take advantage of a situation. So a weakness or strength is a perceived judgement by a scientist whereas a mutation MIGHT just save the organism from total extinction because it fits the new environment more perfectly.

Everyone is talking about aliens travelling to Earth from light years away and taking years to get here, but some of the evidence shows there are aliens already here and may possibly be living on the same Earth we are living on. Could be under the oceans, could be inside mountains, could be in cold frozen areas of Earth such as Antarctica. If biology is not human or carbon-based, then there is no knowing what conditions they can tolerate.

Fisheye, since you have admitted to speculation, then go a little further and speculate aliens might be here already. Certainly there is a huge amount of circumstancial non-scientific data to support this view.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:17 PM
Status: "Oh, all right, then: I'm retired." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,190 posts, read 3,392,433 times
Reputation: 7670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
There is usually a reason why nature generates a mutation and normally it is to take advantage of a situation. So a weakness or strength is a perceived judgement by a scientist whereas a mutation MIGHT just save the organism from total extinction because it fits the new environment more perfectly.
Except that's not how evolution works. Mutations happen by random chance, the evolution of species is the result of natural selection on the products of mutation, genetic drift, and migration. There is no force seeking an advantage behind mutations - they just happen at a rate that can be calculated -- and most mutations are detrimental or benign rather than positive. An example of a detrimental mutation in humans is progeria which is the result of a mutation in the LMNA gene; an example of a neutral mutation in humans is blue eye coloring.

https://www.thoughtco.com/hardy-wein...nition-4157822
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,690 posts, read 10,943,772 times
Reputation: 9973
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Well, we do have data but it is observations made by the non-scientist, unqualified public and taken in the laboratory of life. It does not fit into the rigid framework of science and so is dismissed as not valid. How is data to be collected then so that it satisfies the scientist community for the 'validity' aspect of science? Personally, I think it is a way to avoid getting into areas which are scientifically uncomfortable because they are difficult to 'study' and make up experiments which prove existence/whatever.

There is usually a reason why nature generates a mutation and normally it is to take advantage of a situation. So a weakness or strength is a perceived judgement by a scientist whereas a mutation MIGHT just save the organism from total extinction because it fits the new environment more perfectly.

Everyone is talking about aliens travelling to Earth from light years away and taking years to get here, but some of the evidence shows there are aliens already here and may possibly be living on the same Earth we are living on. Could be under the oceans, could be inside mountains, could be in cold frozen areas of Earth such as Antarctica. If biology is not human or carbon-based, then there is no knowing what conditions they can tolerate.

Fisheye, since you have admitted to speculation, then go a little further and speculate aliens might be here already. Certainly there is a huge amount of circumstancial non-scientific data to support this view.
I do not like circumstantial evidence or data. That's how the snake oil salesmen sold their products.

I know that these issues can be complicated. I also know that if our government did have proof/facts/ technology or whatever that they would not be quick to share. That said it is hard to believe that nobody has released any evidence before their governments get involved. Don't forget that everything is instantaneous today. Technology continues to improve and our world gets smaller.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:48 PM
Status: "Oh, all right, then: I'm retired." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,190 posts, read 3,392,433 times
Reputation: 7670
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I know that these issues can be complicated. I also know that if our government did have proof/facts/ technology or whatever that they would not be quick to share. That said it is hard to believe that nobody has released any evidence before their governments get involved. Don't forget that everything is instantaneous today. Technology continues to improve and our world gets smaller.
The mysteries of the Wow! signal, Tabby's Star, pulsars, FRBs, and so on became known to the public because they were reported via the media by scientists. There were no Men In Black running around silencing those who reported these phenomena. Scientists would be the first to profit (big time) from the revelation that they'd found evidence of extraterrestrial life -- it would mean tenure and careers at the least, and possible Nobel and other prizes.
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:10 PM
 
3,918 posts, read 7,402,061 times
Reputation: 5260
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
All we are doing is speculating because we have no hard data. All I am doing is extrapolating because survival is all we have known. Look at all those that we colonized or exterminated because we portrayed them as too backwards. Of course it was simply a lie to claim justification. In nature the strong or smart win and the weak or stupid fail. I am not arguing morality; only reality. Currently we have all of our eggs in one basket. Many civilizations, if they exist and are close, would see Earth as only an opportunity to increase their odds of survival.

Of course there are many of us that wish aliens are all friendly and willing to share their technology. I am betting that will never happen.
Speculate away. It's fun, but I wish more people would approach the subject with some logical/scientific foundation. I know this is a make-believe, supernatural forum and some suspension of disbelief is required to participate, but still....
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Follow the oil exhaust cloud until you run out of gas, then turn left
940 posts, read 277,598 times
Reputation: 1864
Quote:
It's amazing what can be done with a low-res photograph using a few Photoshop skills.
Quote:
It was probably constructed with an Adobe product as a 3-D drawing with rock texture applied to it. I suspect it's something from Richard Hoagland's crew but can't find its original provenance anywhere.






Or a concrete stepping stone in somebody's garden shot on a 110 camera with low-ASA black & white film.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,555 posts, read 1,130,149 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttark View Post
Or a concrete stepping stone in somebody's garden shot on a 110 camera with low-ASA black & white film.
It would require a lot more physical work, but yeah, that is possible too.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,690 posts, read 10,943,772 times
Reputation: 9973
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Speculate away. It's fun, but I wish more people would approach the subject with some logical/scientific foundation. I know this is a make-believe, supernatural forum and some suspension of disbelief is required to participate, but still....
I don't hold anything against speculation. A hypothesis is sometimes called an "educated guess" and that can lead to theories and discovery. That said it is very difficult to learn the motivation for the speculation; because that can vary. I am leery of those that use bold advertisement or are too sure of their own speculations. It takes research and proof to make those speculations fact.

As far as our Government: They have their reasons for secrecy. I do not believe that we should know everything they know. I hope they are holding back because I would like to believe that they have the means to protect us if the next global nuclear war ever breaks out. Of course it is a nice thought and I hope that we never have to find out; they might disappoint us or kill us all off!
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Old 01-03-2019, 07:35 AM
 
Location: PRC
2,770 posts, read 3,058,582 times
Reputation: 2518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily
Except that's not how evolution works. Mutations happen by random chance, the evolution of species is the result of natural selection on the products of mutation, genetic drift, and migration.
The dog is supposed to have evolved from the wolf, many years ago. However, you would have thought you would be able to trace the way the breeding and evolution came to what we can see today. Some of the dog breeds are so far removed from the wolf that it is difficult to believe they come from the same ancestor. Yet, that is what we are told.

2014 article

Quote:
The findings suggest that the origin of domesticated dogs is more complicated than the commonly held belief that farmers domesticated friendly wolves that later evolved into modern dogs, HealthDay reports. The new study indicates that dogs may have lived with hunter-gatherers and later adapted to agricultural life once humans settled down.

"Dog domestication is more complex than we originally thought," Novembre said. "In this analysis we didn't see clear evidence in favor of a multiregional model, or a single origin from one of the living wolves that we sampled. It makes the field of dog domestication very intriguing going forward."
Where is the line of genetics which lead us from the wolf to the toy poodle (or some other breed which is very different). There should be a clear link from one form to another but there is no fossil evidence like there is with some other animals.

Quote:
Scientists would be the first to profit (big time) from the revelation that they'd found evidence of extraterrestrial life -- it would mean tenure and careers at the least, and possible Nobel and other prizes.
Yes, people say that but consider the number of times scientists have 'discovered' water on the Moon and on Mars, yet this has always been taken witha pinch of salt. There are many people (OK, not scientists) who believe there are signs of life on Mars, yet no-one believes them - even though they use the same methods (photos) science uses to explain rilles and other physical attributes of planets.

There are NO career-changing life-changing opportunities for scientists who say they have discovered extraterrestrial life. There is only ridicule and discredit coming their way. If you think about it, you will see this is the truth.
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