U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-30-2018, 11:56 PM
 
3,171 posts, read 2,302,447 times
Reputation: 6187

Advertisements

I am a skeptic who occsionally drops in because I have an interest. In my years of looking at cases with a critical eye, I believe that I have found a fantastic point of agreement between skeptics and believers, and I think it could help a few people. This is NOT a condescending thread...I honestly think I am onto something here.

In almost all of the famous paranormal cases in which people claimed to be tormented, there was very real, non-supernatual trauma involved in the lives of the afflicted. Some examples:

-In the Robbie Mannaheim/Roland Doe case that The Exorcist is based off of, the boy was said by friends, and even his own father, to have been a slightly disturbed youth in the first place.

-In the Amiytville Horror case, there was a blended family with a possibly abusive step father living in a house where people were murdered.

-In the Engfield Poltergeist case, there was poverty, and a father nowhere to be found.

-In the Entity/Doris Blither case, she was impovershed, lived in squalor, and had four kids by three different fathers.

-In the Annliese Michael case, the poor girl had a lifetime of medical afflictions, including epilepsy.

In fact, I even remember reading a book when I was a kid in which a woman who claimed to be tormented by demons linked it to her childhood sexual abuse at the hands of a step father. Her explanation is that real-world trauma makes you a conduit for the supernatural.

I was thinking of this because my wife was watching a program on Netflicks called "The Haunted," in which people tell their stories, and every single one of them began with people discussing their abusive parents, their drug addicted family members, the disease that killed or afflicted their mother, their poverty, their family alcoholism, etc.

Some talked about how they temporarily able to overcome their paranormal entity, only to have it return later. One made it very clear that the "demon" that tormented her as a child returned when she messed up her adult life.

So here it the idea. You can believe that the there is a such thing as a paranormal world that attacks you when you are an emotionally crippled, open conduit. Or, you can believe that these things are imagined to explain why people's lives become emotionally crippling. Regardless, the answer is the same: address the real world problems instead of the "entity," real or imagined. There seems to be a wide body of evidence, even amongst believers, that they things go away once you have started to fix the pathologies in your own life. For some, that might mean admitting them. Perhaps you are not ready to confront your depression, anxiety, physical, mental, and sexual abuse, alcoholism, addiction, and fear, but they are intimately connected to the thing that is tormenting you, and only confronting them seems to mitigate or defeat that awful thing.

I honestly hope this helps. I am a skeptic, but not unsympathic or imperious one. Everyone has a right to their own reality.

Peace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-31-2018, 04:21 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,039 posts, read 735,970 times
Reputation: 4143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Everyone has a right to their own reality.

.



Put another way, "Seeing is believing." The psychology of perception. To the one having a hallucination, the hallucination is very real.


Considering the several hundred million souls that have passed thru these parts in the last century or so, and all of us have some form of "trauma" (how many people haven't experienced some sort of set-backs in life?), we can only come up with a hand-full of "hauntings" amounting to no more than anecdotal cases of little statistical significance.


People adjust to & compensate for their problems-- mostly in "conventional" ways. But, true, the goofier you are to begin with, the more likely your compensation will be unusual.


As Sherlock Holmes said in The Devil's Foot-- "If the explanation truly is other-worldly, then surely I can be of no help."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-31-2018, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,670 posts, read 10,924,648 times
Reputation: 9966
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
Put another way, "Seeing is believing." The psychology of perception. To the one having a hallucination, the hallucination is very real.


Considering the several hundred million souls that have passed thru these parts in the last century or so, and all of us have some form of "trauma" (how many people haven't experienced some sort of set-backs in life?), we can only come up with a hand-full of "hauntings" amounting to no more than anecdotal cases of little statistical significance.


People adjust to & compensate for their problems-- mostly in "conventional" ways. But, true, the goofier you are to begin with, the more likely your compensation will be unusual.


As Sherlock Holmes said in The Devil's Foot-- "If the explanation truly is other-worldly, then surely I can be of no help."
On that note of 'seeing is believing' my HS did a little skit back in the late 1950's or early 1960's to demonstrate the importance of good witness testimony. They took us into the auditorium and asked us to bring a tablet and a pencil. Then on stage they had some students that were set up to look like shop keepers. All of a sudden a kid runs in with a banana in his hand and ask them to hand over their cash. Then he grabs the loot and quickly leaves. Then the principal stepped onstage and asked us all to write down what we just witnessed.

The principal, after the responses were collected, read off our entries. Of course there were many that were talking or not paying attention. But the ones that were paying attention interpreted what they saw into what they thought they saw. Out of maybe a few hundred students there were only a handful that could give an accurate description of the events they just saw. Some described the banana as a Colt revolver and some said it was obviously a SW. The color of the clothing, whether the holdup man was wearing a bandana, mask, or hood, or even the sex and race of the 'man' was guessed wrong.

It was a great little demonstration that stayed with me for almost 60 years. People do not always see what we think we see. Of course if you tried the same demonstration today they would lock down the whole county!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Caverns measureless to man...
6,709 posts, read 4,291,718 times
Reputation: 14979
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
So here it the idea. You can believe that the there is a such thing as a paranormal world that attacks you when you are an emotionally crippled, open conduit. Or, you can believe that these things are imagined to explain why people's lives become emotionally crippling. Regardless, the answer is the same: address the real world problems instead of the "entity," real or imagined. There seems to be a wide body of evidence, even amongst believers, that they things go away once you have started to fix the pathologies in your own life. For some, that might mean admitting them. Perhaps you are not ready to confront your depression, anxiety, physical, mental, and sexual abuse, alcoholism, addiction, and fear, but they are intimately connected to the thing that is tormenting you, and only confronting them seems to mitigate or defeat that awful thing.


Peace.
I'm skeptical as well, but do believe there is more to the paranormal than can be explained away by logical deductions. My personal opinion is that much of what is called "paranormal" or "supernatural" is just some sort of science that we don't yet understand. But, I'll give an anecdotal example of something that fits rather well with your post.

I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but I once knew a woman who was severely bipolar, with some other associated disorders to go along with it. She was in very bad shape; emotionally and psychologically, she was a catastrophe, and nothing she tried helped for long. An absolutely wonderful person, but the inside of her head was hell.

At one point, over a period of a year or so, she began telling me about instances in her life where it was as though someone was playing malicious tricks on her - deliberately messing with her head to make her feel she was crazier than she really was. What she was describing seemed to be something very much like a poltergeist. Of course I thought it was just another manifestation of her illness - that she was really doing all the things she was describing, but didn't realize it.

At around that time, I lost track of her, but a couple of years later ran into her on the street. It was nice to see her; we both enjoyed catching up, but she mentioned that she was still having occasional problems with what seemed like a malevolent force playing tricks on her. We started to keep in touch a little bit at that time.

Again.... not to go into a lot of detail, but it was during this period of time that something happened to her that I was actually able to observe myself, and it was a piece of absolute, irrefutable evidence that she had been telling the truth about at least one of the things, and that she could not have been the one doing it. When I saw it, it literally made the hair stand up on the back of my neck; it would have made a bloodchilling scene in a horror movie.

So, there you have it. I did notice that when things were going well for her emotionally and psychologically, what she called "the crazymaking" seemed to drastically subside or even stop, but it never seemed to fully go away, and when she dipped down into a "bad spell" a lot of really weird things seemed to happen. I did - and do - fully believe that there was something unexplainable that seemed to prey on her when she was at her most vulnerable, and also seemed to deliberately create situations that made her more vulnerable. What that is (or was), I'll never know, but there was something there that was very out of the ordinary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 10:39 AM
 
3,926 posts, read 4,874,446 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
I'm skeptical as well, but do believe there is more to the paranormal than can be explained away by logical deductions. My personal opinion is that much of what is called "paranormal" or "supernatural" is just some sort of science that we don't yet understand. But, I'll give an anecdotal example of something that fits rather well with your post.

I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but I once knew a woman who was severely bipolar, with some other associated disorders to go along with it. She was in very bad shape; emotionally and psychologically, she was a catastrophe, and nothing she tried helped for long. An absolutely wonderful person, but the inside of her head was hell.

At one point, over a period of a year or so, she began telling me about instances in her life where it was as though someone was playing malicious tricks on her - deliberately messing with her head to make her feel she was crazier than she really was. What she was describing seemed to be something very much like a poltergeist. Of course I thought it was just another manifestation of her illness - that she was really doing all the things she was describing, but didn't realize it.

At around that time, I lost track of her, but a couple of years later ran into her on the street. It was nice to see her; we both enjoyed catching up, but she mentioned that she was still having occasional problems with what seemed like a malevolent force playing tricks on her. We started to keep in touch a little bit at that time.

Again.... not to go into a lot of detail, but it was during this period of time that something happened to her that I was actually able to observe myself, and it was a piece of absolute, irrefutable evidence that she had been telling the truth about at least one of the things, and that she could not have been the one doing it. When I saw it, it literally made the hair stand up on the back of my neck; it would have made a bloodchilling scene in a horror movie.

So, there you have it. I did notice that when things were going well for her emotionally and psychologically, what she called "the crazymaking" seemed to drastically subside or even stop, but it never seemed to fully go away, and when she dipped down into a "bad spell" a lot of really weird things seemed to happen. I did - and do - fully believe that there was something unexplainable that seemed to prey on her when she was at her most vulnerable, and also seemed to deliberately create situations that made her more vulnerable. What that is (or was), I'll never know, but there was something there that was very out of the ordinary.
you are onto one of the reasons some people are prone to paranormal negative experiences

liken it to getting sick when your immune system is down and you have been exposed to an infection
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Unexplained Mysteries and Paranormal
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top