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Old 01-02-2019, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,571 posts, read 1,145,167 times
Reputation: 1758

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I loved the old movies when I was young. I even started a rocket club long before Estes and the boxed rockets hit the shelf. We had many successful launches with our potassium nitrate and sugar fuel. It was all in the processing. Our little rockets went a long ways and left a beautiful white smoke cloud behind them. Of course we had just as much fun with our failures! It was a time of a lot of optimism about a bright future; even when we weren't hiding under our desk! That triangle did not have a long white smoke trail?
No, no smoke trail. Just a low buzzing noise as I recall.

Ever read "Rocket Ship Galileo" by Heinlein? That's a great book about early space exploration in the late '40s. Had 3 high school whiz kids and one of them's uncle (PhD in nuclear physics, of course) who went to the moon.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,732 posts, read 10,962,911 times
Reputation: 10049
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
No, no smoke trail. Just a low buzzing noise as I recall.

Ever read "Rocket Ship Galileo" by Heinlein? That's a great book about early space exploration in the late '40s. Had 3 high school whiz kids and one of them's uncle (PhD in nuclear physics, of course) who went to the moon.
There was a kid that graduated a few years before me in 1964 that made a large (I think it was 11 or 15 feet long) liquid fuel rocket. Of course his machinist father probably helped a lot! But he took top place in the science fair; I don't think they ever tested it. I had a beautiful nickel/iron meteorite and his brother stole it from me - ticked me off for many years (it still does when I think about it). Years after he took it he brought it in for a show and tell and we started duking it out. It fell and hit the asphalt or concrete and shattered. I kept the pieces but then my parents lost them when I went away to college - easy come; easy go!
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,571 posts, read 1,145,167 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
There was a kid that graduated a few years before me in 1964 that made a large (I think it was 11 or 15 feet long) liquid fuel rocket. Of course his machinist father probably helped a lot! But he took top place in the science fair; I don't think they ever tested it. I had a beautiful nickel/iron meteorite and his brother stole it from me - ticked me off for many years (it still does when I think about it). Years after he took it he brought it in for a show and tell and we started duking it out. It fell and hit the asphalt or concrete and shattered. I kept the pieces but then my parents lost them when I went away to college - easy come; easy go!
Man, that's a terrible thing to hear about the meteorite. I wouldn't think a nickel/iron one would shatter, but you never know about those alien things.

When I was about 10, there was a guy in the neighborhood who made his own telescope, ground the lenses by hand, and later officially discovered a comet. He was a pretty smart guy.
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Old 01-02-2019, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,732 posts, read 10,962,911 times
Reputation: 10049
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Man, that's a terrible thing to hear about the meteorite. I wouldn't think a nickel/iron one would shatter, but you never know about those alien things.

When I was about 10, there was a guy in the neighborhood who made his own telescope, ground the lenses by hand, and later officially discovered a comet. He was a pretty smart guy.
It did shatter but I have no idea if the kid had been pounding on it for the years it was missing? A magnet would pick it up. It was about two inches in diameter and round and had smoothed craters. It was a great find. We were always looking for crystals or anything unusual when we were young. My mother once told me she found a perfect fossilized fish and then she sat it down and forgot where she put it! So much for great collectibles!

How did he ever grind the lenses by hand? It had to take a lot of time? I don't get along with glass. I take a large sheet of glass, a glass cutter, and I am lucky if I can get a 6"X10" pane!
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:00 PM
Status: "Oh, all right, then: I'm retired." (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,211 posts, read 3,399,384 times
Reputation: 7705
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
How did he ever grind the lenses by hand? It had to take a lot of time? I don't get along with glass. I take a large sheet of glass, a glass cutter, and I am lucky if I can get a 6"X10" pane!
I tried hand-grinding a 8" reflector lens in high school. I had a 55 gallon drum partially filled with water in the basement, and fixed the glass disk to the top of it. You keep the glass wet, and use successively finer grades of abrasive to grind the glass, ending with cerium oxide. You start out getting a spherical shape but by switching the stroke, will end up with a proper parabolic lens -- you have to keep testing at the end of the process with a Ronchi screen to make sure it's parabolic. Most people send the result off to be silvered.

It was a pain in the rear and a lot of work, and I was a lazy teenager so I finally gave up on it and stuck with my premade 4" reflector. It does take forever -- but it's probably good exercise.
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Old 01-02-2019, 05:49 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,770 posts, read 3,061,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62
This is one aspect that suggests UFOs are NOT experimental or secret military craft, if they had antigravity or some other kind of aircraft engine that could operate almost totally silent, I imagine every defense agency would be wanting to use this on their own aircraft, and they would have surely used them by now.

Ultimately, tech that is experimental...does not stay experimental for decades and decades, eventually it becomes public knowledge.
Can you imagine the situation where technology changes overnight? Where this new technology is announced and then what?

People will demand this new technology in their civilian aircraft, in their cars, in their daily life.

ALL of the training will be obsolete. Cars, planes, everything will be outdated everyone will be scrambling to get training for the new technology so it can be used, so the folks who have that training can take advantage of the job openings.

Imagine airports, stations, garages ALL have to be redesigned, rebuilt to accommodate the new technology. If cars suddenly start to levitate and move at 50 feet above the ground, then it will be chaos to allow this to happen without regulations - everyone going everywhere in every direction.

And that is not considering the people who have made their fortunes in oil who do not want a new power source.

No, if you are running a country, I think it is easier and less complicated to leave this technology well alone.
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,732 posts, read 10,962,911 times
Reputation: 10049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
I tried hand-grinding a 8" reflector lens in high school. I had a 55 gallon drum partially filled with water in the basement, and fixed the glass disk to the top of it. You keep the glass wet, and use successively finer grades of abrasive to grind the glass, ending with cerium oxide. You start out getting a spherical shape but by switching the stroke, will end up with a proper parabolic lens -- you have to keep testing at the end of the process with a Ronchi screen to make sure it's parabolic. Most people send the result off to be silvered.

It was a pain in the rear and a lot of work, and I was a lazy teenager so I finally gave up on it and stuck with my premade 4" reflector. It does take forever -- but it's probably good exercise.
I do better with glass for target practice! Unfortunately I would now be required to pick up every piece! It isn't like half a century ago where nobody worried about it!

There is no way to set the lens grinding as a mechanized operation? I would have to use my screw gun; I don't work without a screw gun anymore!

As far as technology changing overnight (then next comment); we are headed in that direction. As the computer singularity happens we will relegate more and more responsibility to our silicone friends (hopefully friends). Their solutions could happen almost as fast as the speed of light. That would be especially true if they have the tools to build as well as think. Of course we might become irrelevant? Perhaps, if there are aliens, they would shut us down before the computers take control?
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Old 01-02-2019, 06:55 PM
Status: "Oh, all right, then: I'm retired." (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Greenville, SC
4,211 posts, read 3,399,384 times
Reputation: 7705
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
There is no way to set the lens grinding as a mechanized operation? I would have to use my screw gun; I don't work without a screw gun anymore!
Some hobbyists have home-brewed their own mirror grinding machines:

Mirror Grinding Machine

Quote:
As far as technology changing overnight (then next comment); we are headed in that direction. As the computer singularity happens we will relegate more and more responsibility to our silicone friends (hopefully friends). Their solutions could happen almost as fast as the speed of light. That would be especially true if they have the tools to build as well as think. Of course we might become irrelevant? Perhaps, if there are aliens, they would shut us down before the computers take control?
Not saying there was any sort of AI sneakiness involved, but here's a recent example of a neural net "hiding" data to "cheat" at its assigned task:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/31/th...ppointed-task/
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Old 01-02-2019, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,732 posts, read 10,962,911 times
Reputation: 10049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Some hobbyists have home-brewed their own mirror grinding machines:

Mirror Grinding Machine
Interesting grinding machine! I did go to eBay and checked out the prices on blanks. I think I will pass on that considering my experience with glass. Hopefully I will not miss any of those silent UFOs scooting around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
Not saying there was any sort of AI sneakiness involved, but here's a recent example of a neural net "hiding" data to "cheat" at its assigned task:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/31/th...ppointed-task/
In that article the did not attribute AI to doing anything sinister. However, when you consider all the effort to create smarter and smarter computers; it will not be long. All of the world's militaries want the best and fastest computers. The same can be said of banks and security firms as well as our scientist. Some say we are approaching our limits but other find new way to store more and build faster machines. I do not see any way of putting the genie back in the bottle.

If we are getting visited; would they stand by as we approach the singularity or would they shut us down if they suspected that we could unleash a superior foe? My feeling is that there is no one there to stop us (not even ourselves). There is the possibility of another twist and that would be aliens that are themselves AI.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,571 posts, read 1,145,167 times
Reputation: 1758
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
It did shatter but I have no idea if the kid had been pounding on it for the years it was missing? A magnet would pick it up. It was about two inches in diameter and round and had smoothed craters. It was a great find. We were always looking for crystals or anything unusual when we were young. My mother once told me she found a perfect fossilized fish and then she sat it down and forgot where she put it! So much for great collectibles!

How did he ever grind the lenses by hand? It had to take a lot of time? I don't get along with glass. I take a large sheet of glass, a glass cutter, and I am lucky if I can get a 6"X10" pane!
I remember seeing him grinding one time. I just stood over it with the glass in fixture (the 'mold' if you will), pushed down, and ground away. It took him a long time to do, but that's how Galileo had to do it back in the day. It was about 4" in diameter. I don't know how many lenses were in his telescope.

Ever watch "Meteorite Men" that was on for about 3 seasons on one of the Discovery channels? It was pretty good . .. you learn a lot about meteorites from that program. Pretty sure the episodes are available online, perhaps at their website.
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