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Old 01-30-2019, 05:00 PM
 
1,239 posts, read 895,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Having owned a few birds of prey myself, I would say that it is not a characteristic for them to do that. Yes, they will go into the body of prey at the easiest point which is usually the eye sockets but to core out the rectum in a clean way is not what they do. They tend to tear their way in as do other animals. What you describe does not suggest a large bird due to the precision cutting involved with mutilation events.

I am not saying you did not see what you reported, just that I think you are incorrect to suspect a bird - however large - can be the culprit for the mutilation cases.

I don't think black vultures are nocturnal, which is when most of these mutilations occur.
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Old 01-30-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagster View Post
I don't think black vultures are nocturnal, which is when most of these mutilations occur.
Do we know that for sure? It is possible that the farmers that found them felt the attack was at night. But they could have found them late in the day and just took an educated guess. Beside there are wolves, lions, and bears in some of these areas where the attacks take place. You would have to look at each one closely and you could not lump all of them together.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bagster View Post
I don't think black vultures are nocturnal, which is when most of these mutilations occur.
Best I can tell, buzzards (as we call them) only work in the daytime. If something is dead on the ground, you can seem them circling continuously in the air. And of course, they land and do their disgusting deed. I suppose it's possible that some species of vultures are nocturnal, but I'm not aware of them.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:18 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Best I can tell, buzzards (as we call them) only work in the daytime. If something is dead on the ground, you can seem them circling continuously in the air. And of course, they land and do their disgusting deed. I suppose it's possible that some species of vultures are nocturnal, but I'm not aware of them.
I don’t think there are. Carcasses belong to “others” at night. I developed a new respect for these misanthropic birds as I was researching bird predation.

In Africa, Vultures “handled” up to 90% of carrion but some species have become endangered & there are concerns regarding risk from disease & bacteria carried by flies. Their stomach acid allows them to feed on carcasses infected with anthrax and rabies, both of which are fatal to their “competition”; Hyenas.
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Old 01-30-2019, 11:30 PM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Do we know that for sure? It is possible that the farmers that found them felt the attack was at night. But they could have found them late in the day and just took an educated guess. Beside there are wolves, lions, and bears in some of these areas where the attacks take place. You would have to look at each one closely and you could not lump all of them together.
I sort of did lump them in together, after reading about five decades worth of reports, archived newspapers & Dept. of Agriculture/state Livestock Association investigations.

I chose 20 of the most consistent findings & set out to see how many of them could be attributed to “bird” & ended up learning that they all could.

Ranchers have a good eye for what predation from other carnivores looks like & they expect to have some losses due to predators. It’s not just one or two things “off” about the scene; there are multiple anomalies.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:32 AM
 
Location: colorado springs, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Having owned a few birds of prey myself, I would say that it is not a characteristic for them to do that. Yes, they will go into the body of prey at the easiest point which is usually the eye sockets but to core out the rectum in a clean way is not what they do. They tend to tear their way in as do other animals. What you describe does not suggest a large bird due to the precision cutting involved with mutilation events.

I am not saying you did not see what you reported, just that I think you are incorrect to suspect a bird - however large - can be the culprit for the mutilation cases.
During the multiple sightings that occurred in Texas during the 1970s; one man described the beak as being very long (2 feet) & thin. One newspaper’s headline read; “Horrible Faced Bird”; as it was described as having the face of a monkey, with a beak so unusual that it would almost disappear from view at a certain angle. I can see how a beak like that & that long could core livestock.Two teachers also observed a pair circling in the sky above a grazing herd of cattle.

It just occurred to me that without the beak; the description of the face & the way the wings cupped the air (like skin not feathers), the nocturnal presence , etc ... Makes it sound like a Bat.

All I know is that whatever it was that I startled off my roof accidentally in the middle of the night; was a living creature & in this world; if you live ... you eat. And something that size isn’t filling up on bunnies or lizards.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi View Post
I sort of did lump them in together, after reading about five decades worth of reports, archived newspapers & Dept. of Agriculture/state Livestock Association investigations.

I chose 20 of the most consistent findings & set out to see how many of them could be attributed to “bird” & ended up learning that they all could.

Ranchers have a good eye for what predation from other carnivores looks like & they expect to have some losses due to predators. It’s not just one or two things “off” about the scene; there are multiple anomalies.
Some ranchers do not know exactly where their cattle are until time to round them up. Of course they try to keep an eye on them; but you are talking about large tracks of land in many cases. There are many variables and it is sometimes hard to determine which 'mutilation' occurred at night and which occurred during the day. Even the term "mutilation" tends to suggest alien or human involvement. Some or many of the mutilations could simply be predations. You need pathologists, coroners, and medical examiners to make that distinction.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:11 AM
 
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Farmers/Ranchers are very well educated. College and the school of hard knocks. Farmers Veterinarians. Farm butchers, some Hunters and just general country people are very knowledgeable about a cattle death and blood; from butchering and processing all types of cattle and other farm animals; you will learn about howmuch blood is in an animal and comparing the quality of their past incisions to the surgically precise cuts found in Mutilations. Around where i live cattle owners check them daily if not twice; due to the value of the cattle and being a Good Stewards and to stop Rustlers etc. The mutilation i know of was on Polled Herford cattle and in sight of the roadway only about 150 yards.
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Old 01-31-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,946 posts, read 11,079,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Farmers/Ranchers are very well educated. College and the school of hard knocks. Farmers Veterinarians. Farm butchers, some Hunters and just general country people are very knowledgeable about a cattle death and blood; from butchering and processing all types of cattle and other farm animals; you will learn about howmuch blood is in an animal and comparing the quality of their past incisions to the surgically precise cuts found in Mutilations. Around where i live cattle owners check them daily if not twice; due to the value of the cattle and being a Good Stewards and to stop Rustlers etc. The mutilation i know of was on Polled Herford cattle and in sight of the roadway only about 150 yards.
A mutilation, in sight of a roadway, is also in sight of a human; that could have been responsible for the mutilation.

Not all farmers are the same. We love to lump everybody together and that is not always the case. Some are very knowledgeable and some are not. Many are individualist and have very strong opinions on what they thought happened; like the interview with the rancher that started this thread. She stated it was devil worshipers that killed the cow for an offering. So, if that is the case, and all farmers think alike; then case closed!
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:06 PM
 
1,239 posts, read 895,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Best I can tell, buzzards (as we call them) only work in the daytime. If something is dead on the ground, you can seem them circling continuously in the air. And of course, they land and do their disgusting deed. I suppose it's possible that some species of vultures are nocturnal, but I'm not aware of them.

Vultures are also migratory, which would pretty well rule out their involvement in the original post.



Another interesting fact is many ranchers don't even bother to report strange mutilation cases. I don't know that I would either.
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