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Old 02-02-2019, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
2,765 posts, read 1,233,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasily View Post
There was a top-secret high-altitude balloon program called Mogul, for gathering data on Soviet nuclear tests. It's been suggested the UFO story was concocted to cover up the crash of a Mogul launch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul

This would explain the mixed reports of the debris nature, the secrecy and threats, the scouring by military for bits of debris. From the above article on Mogul:
I believe the Project Mogul revelation by the Air Force was made in the mid-90s ... about 45 years after the Roswell Incident supposedly occurred. Some might say it was just a disclosure of convenience ... somebody just happened to think about Mogul and think that it might be used as a believable source of the Roswell crash. And close to 50 years does seem like an awfully long time to wait to declassify and reveal a technology that was almost certainly obsolete within 10 years of its use. So Mogul, to me, does make me feel a little skeptical that it was the real reason.

Also in at least one picture, Maj Jesse Marcel is shown displaying a material that looks a lot like silver mylar, or even aluminum foil. Marcel's son, who is a medical doctor now, says that the material in the picture is not what his dad showed him when he was a fairly young child (12 or so I think).

So, there really does seem to be some inconsistencies in some of the reports. Regardless of what it really was, it's fun to think of it as a space ship from some far planet visiting Earth. If not for Roswell and the incident in Washington a month or so before of Kenneth Arnold's "saucers skipping on water", we'd never have had all those wonderful science fiction movies in the '50s.
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Old 02-02-2019, 09:41 PM
 
Location: NYC
12,127 posts, read 8,108,475 times
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The Roswell case was definitely real because there were so many witnesses that worked on the case and were discredited by the government because they want to keep a tight lid on the real story. I do think it is important for the government to keep a tight lid on it right now because we don't really know who we are dealing with here.

One investigator who used to work on many of these cases have stated that we're dealing with multiple alien species that come here. If the government talks openly about these cases, we may have huge protests and civil unrest. The most religious people would be the biggest open critic because they think the government is out to discredit God or the church.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Out on some lonely county road in Texas.
12,143 posts, read 16,160,311 times
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In the 1980s, some people in California actually claimed the USDA was flying "black militaristic helicopters and spraying them with nerve gas" on the med fly program.

It's a lot of fun to think that your government is "out to get you" and stories that "aliens have landed" but to do so on the basis of what I have seen offered as "proof" is totally without logic. I attributed the California scenarios to weirdness, paranoia and possibly even bad eyesight but mostly I attributed it to ambulance-chasing lawyers willing to capitalize on people who use any logic that complies with their own mindset. The City of Roswell has only recently learned to use this tactic although, being a small town on the perennially economically-strapped agricultural plains part of New Mexico, Roswell is simply promoting a goal of better economics and growth.

BTW, as a staunch believer in God and Christianity, there's nothing about a belief in extraterrestrials that comes close to threatening my faith or I doubt any other believer's faith who believes in a God who has the ability to create a universe. For the most part, much of my disbelief in the Roswell story is based on my experiences in both the Federal government and in the Air Force and in the nature of people. I have to think anyone is a bit nuts who actually believes either the Federal government or the Air Force could maintain such an important secret for over 71 years.

When the Kanamites finally do land with their forks and knives, rest assured I will not be one who refuses to trust the government interpretative people who warn us that the aliens think that humans taste like chicken.

PS: If we are to assume that any extraterrestrial lifeforms who have the intelligence and technology to visit the Earth followed the same biological evolution that Earth lifeforms supposedly have followed for survivability, we also have to assume that aggressiveness is a significant characteristic of those lifeforms. Maybe we shouldn't be sending travel maps to Earth to these "folks?"

Last edited by High_Plains_Retired; 02-03-2019 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 02-04-2019, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Maine
15,556 posts, read 20,138,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired View Post
BTW, as a staunch believer in God and Christianity, there's nothing about a belief in extraterrestrials that comes close to threatening my faith or I doubt any other believer's faith who believes in a God who has the ability to create a universe. For the most part, much of my disbelief in the Roswell story is based on my experiences in both the Federal government and in the Air Force and in the nature of people. I have to think anyone is a bit nuts who actually believes either the Federal government or the Air Force could maintain such an important secret for over 71 years.
Agreed. Wholeheartedly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Plains_Retired View Post
If we are to assume that any extraterrestrial lifeforms who have the intelligence and technology to visit the Earth followed the same biological evolution that Earth lifeforms supposedly have followed for survivability, we also have to assume that aggressiveness is a significant characteristic of those lifeforms. Maybe we shouldn't be sending travel maps to Earth to these "folks?"
I agree with your premise but not necessarily your conclusion.

We simply have no idea what might motivate an extraterrestrial intelligence. I'm sure when my dog comes in the room and finds me reading a book, she finds it completely baffling. Not because my behavior makes no sense, but because her brain cannot understand it. Her brain just can't handle it.

Extraterrestrial visitors may well see us as food or pests or infidels. Or they may ignore us entirely, paying us no more attention than I do pay the ants I pass on the sidewalk. Or maybe they find us mildly amusing like I find the squirrels. Or maybe none of the above. We simply have no way of knowing.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Out on some lonely county road in Texas.
12,143 posts, read 16,160,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I agree with your premise but not necessarily your conclusion.

We simply have no idea what might motivate an extraterrestrial intelligence. I'm sure when my dog comes in the room and finds me reading a book, she finds it completely baffling. Not because my behavior makes no sense, but because her brain cannot understand it. Her brain just can't handle it.

Extraterrestrial visitors may well see us as food or pests or infidels. Or they may ignore us entirely, paying us no more attention than I do pay the ants I pass on the sidewalk. Or maybe they find us mildly amusing like I find the squirrels. Or maybe none of the above. We simply have no way of knowing.
I agree that we have no way of knowing what might motivate extraterrestrial intelligence but what I am suggesting is that maybe we should wonder what characteristics did the organism develop and possess that allowed it to survive to that level? In all the nature that we know, aggression is most always a characteristic that enhances survivability in a normal ecosystem.

So, since it's not likely that any aliens less advanced than humans could find their way across space, and possibly even time, we have to assume any aliens arriving here would be highly advanced biologically and technologically speaking. And if we assume they've developed and survived as a species under regular ecologically competitive conditions, do we really want to show them our front door and invite them into our home without knowing anything about them? I doubt even Spielberg would open his front door to E.T. without first knowing something about its nature.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:51 AM
 
8,059 posts, read 2,011,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
It was a different era back then. Real journalism still existed.




That whole area was (and still is) full of top secret military research. Roswell isn't all that far from White Sands where the first A-bombs were made, or from Holloman Air Base, which developed lots of top secret aircraft. Back when I was a kid, locals used to see the stealth bomber overhead long before it became public knowledge.
YES, they even took advantage of the fact, people were reporting them as 'UFOs', this was a clever disguise that was very effective, it kept everyone guessing what they truly were and where they originated, oddly though, it doesnt look like they use this tactic with secret experimental aircraft today...after all, what was the last aircraft that went from secret/experimental to publicly known, that explained all the previous UFO reports?


The most advanced military plane today is the F35, but it is nothing at all like the majority of UFO reports, its extremely loud, is visible to the naked eye, etc.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:58 AM
 
8,059 posts, read 2,011,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Agreed. Wholeheartedly.




I agree with your premise but not necessarily your conclusion.

We simply have no idea what might motivate an extraterrestrial intelligence. I'm sure when my dog comes in the room and finds me reading a book, she finds it completely baffling. Not because my behavior makes no sense, but because her brain cannot understand it. Her brain just can't handle it.

Extraterrestrial visitors may well see us as food or pests or infidels. Or they may ignore us entirely, paying us no more attention than I do pay the ants I pass on the sidewalk. Or maybe they find us mildly amusing like I find the squirrels. Or maybe none of the above. We simply have no way of knowing.
Thats the way I see it too, I think even if the aliens sat us down and tried to explain why they have been coming here for centuries, it wouldnt make any sense to us at all, it would simply be beyond our comprehension level, and it would probably create more questions than answers in the process.


I dont like the word 'extraterrestrial' much anymore, while there probably are true extraterrestrial civilizations out there, I think the things popping up in our skies over the years, that we call 'UFOs' are a little more 'closer to home' in origin...'where' they come from is even beyond our comprehension.
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Old 02-05-2019, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
13,968 posts, read 11,092,459 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Thats the way I see it too, I think even if the aliens sat us down and tried to explain why they have been coming here for centuries, it wouldnt make any sense to us at all, it would simply be beyond our comprehension level, and it would probably create more questions than answers in the process.


I dont like the word 'extraterrestrial' much anymore, while there probably are true extraterrestrial civilizations out there, I think the things popping up in our skies over the years, that we call 'UFOs' are a little more 'closer to home' in origin...'where' they come from is even beyond our comprehension.
In nature some animals do tolerate the other species and some even prefer to be with to flock or graze with others. However, when it comes to survival; it boils down to every one for themselves (with only a few exceptions). Colonization of other planets could very easily be one civilization's quest to survive (they could have overcrowding issues, a dying sun, or simply don't want all their eggs in one basket). It would not be wise of us, to expect any alien that traveled this far, to simply sit down and discus the weather. If aliens did decide to communicate it would probably be a stalling tactic to extract military and strategic information. My hunch is they would waste no time and get right down to the business of 'preparing' our world for their new home.
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Out on some lonely county road in Texas.
12,143 posts, read 16,160,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
In nature some animals do tolerate the other species and some even prefer to be with to flock or graze with others. However, when it comes to survival; it boils down to every one for themselves (with only a few exceptions). Colonization of other planets could very easily be one civilization's quest to survive (they could have overcrowding issues, a dying sun, or simply don't want all their eggs in one basket). It would not be wise of us, to expect any alien that traveled this far, to simply sit down and discus the weather. If aliens did decide to communicate it would probably be a stalling tactic to extract military and strategic information. My hunch is they would waste no time and get right down to the business of 'preparing' our world for their new home.
Based on what we have seen recently in our own world, I agree that it normally takes some very strong influences in a culture to make individuals in that culture travel to a strange world, in this case a nation. One would think that history would teach most humans that they should be very wary of the rapid influx of significantly different cultures upon their own. One very good example I would refer to is the history of native Americans.

As to the interactions of various species, biology should also offer some very strong clues as to the possible detrimental effects of inter-specific competition in the recorded past. Here there are too many examples to list.

I suppose this is the way things are supposed to work in a Darwinian sense but you would think the folks at NASA would have at least given some consideration to history and biology before sending maps to possible advanced invaders.
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:19 PM
 
3,946 posts, read 7,466,976 times
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No need to worry. We have been broadcasting our presence to the universe for sometimes now. Technological aliens, if there are any, can find us the same way we have been trying to find them -- with telescopes. Our next generation telescopes will be able to analyse a planet's atmosphere to look for chemical signatures indicative of energy consuming civilizations.
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