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Old 05-12-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,399 posts, read 7,388,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
So what about infants born with life-threatening conditions that pass away shortly after birth or before they even turn one, did the spirit purposely want to do that or did they just screw up in choosing that body?

What about people that are killed/murdered at no fault of their own, are they "punished" because their time here was cut short and they didn't get enough time to learn the lessons they decided to learn this time around or do they get a pass?

What about people that decide to kill themselves, did they already learn the lessons they wanted to learn here and just decided to move on to bigger and better things on other planets in other galaxies around the universe?
The post I quote here has some great questions, and I believe I can answer them.
I will start with the first question, and number them in the order they were asked.

1- You are half right in your assumption.
Many times once incarnated, a spirit does indeed, have a change of heart, and disembarks from a body, leaving the body to die.

2- First thing you need to know, is, the"person" is not the prerogative in these instances.
People are not being punished.
The soul with in has made a determination to leave the body, as a result of the actions from an evil spirit.
The evil spirit was the one doing the killing.
You need to remember, humans are nothing more than the tool by which spirits learn.
It is not the reverse.

In events such as a plane crash, auto accident, etc, though the spirit knew ahead of time these events would occur, when they happen, the spirit is confused, and as a result, the spirit may not leave the body immediately.
Many times these spirits are placed in limbo, unable to enter back into the spirit world, and unable to return to the human existence.

3- People that kill themselves is an entirely different matter.
Once again, the spirit with in, knew before incarnating, this human would in time, destroy itself.
The spirit of this human from the start was one of two different kinds of spirit.
Either it was an evil spirit who did not care , and perhaps not ever thinking of the consequences ahead , when returning to the spirit world, or it may have been a young, and inexperienced spirit that had no knowledge of the circumstances upon it's return to the spirit world.

In the spirit world, so I am told, and have also seen in print, suicide is looked upon as weakness, and distress among most spirits, and the spirit that commanded the suicide while entombed in that human body, is now scorned,ignored, and ridiculed once back in the spirit world, and it's only recourse would be to incarnate into a better life, and seek redemption.

Keep in mind, you referenced to the word"people" when in fact the subject of your questions should have been "spirits"

Bob.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:07 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,881 posts, read 3,168,023 times
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This is how I understand it, although I might be completely wrong.

I think what needs to be said in another way, is that we are more than just a physical body, we are part of a multi-dimensional spirit which exists on many levels.

Our human body is like a car which part of the multi-dimensional spirit (our consciousness) gets into some time after human conception, to use as a learning vehicle. As Bob says, it is left behind when it is no longer any use or when we have destroyed it due to misuse.

One body does not occupy all of your spirit's resources/energy so the part of your spirit which is still back there, can do other things as well as keep an eye on how your body and mind are doing. For example, it might have more than one body going at the same time in diferent places.

Of course, we perceive ourself as an individual, which we are, but the 'aim' as I see it, is to merge with our spirit once again and to gain a wider perspective/more knowledge/experience, and for the spirit to merge with its spirit, and so on back to Source or "Home".
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
19,925 posts, read 9,720,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
The post I quote here has some great questions, and I believe I can answer them.
I will start with the first question, and number them in the order they were asked.

1- You are half right in your assumption.
Many times once incarnated, a spirit does indeed, have a change of heart, and disembarks from a body, leaving the body to die.

2- First thing you need to know, is, the"person" is not the prerogative in these instances.
People are not being punished.
The soul with in has made a determination to leave the body, as a result of the actions from an evil spirit.
The evil spirit was the one doing the killing.
You need to remember, humans are nothing more than the tool by which spirits learn.
It is not the reverse.

In events such as a plane crash, auto accident, etc, though the spirit knew ahead of time these events would occur, when they happen, the spirit is confused, and as a result, the spirit may not leave the body immediately.
Many times these spirits are placed in limbo, unable to enter back into the spirit world, and unable to return to the human existence.

3- People that kill themselves is an entirely different matter.
Once again, the spirit with in, knew before incarnating, this human would in time, destroy itself.
The spirit of this human from the start was one of two different kinds of spirit.
Either it was an evil spirit who did not care , and perhaps not ever thinking of the consequences ahead , when returning to the spirit world, or it may have been a young, and inexperienced spirit that had no knowledge of the circumstances upon it's return to the spirit world.

In the spirit world, so I am told, and have also seen in print, suicide is looked upon as weakness, and distress among most spirits, and the spirit that commanded the suicide while entombed in that human body, is now scorned,ignored, and ridiculed once back in the spirit world, and it's only recourse would be to incarnate into a better life, and seek redemption.

Keep in mind, you referenced to the word"people" when in fact the subject of your questions should have been "spirits"

Bob.
This surprises me, Bob. I thought I've read that the only recourse to further oneself is to return and relive a similar kind of life, having to redo the lessons meant for the previous life. The bit about 'better life' seems like a reward.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:19 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,881 posts, read 3,168,023 times
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Quote:
In the spirit world, so I am told, and have also seen in print, suicide is looked upon as weakness, and distress among most spirits, and the spirit that commanded the suicide while entombed in that human body, is now scorned,ignored, and ridiculed once back in the spirit world,...
I would disagree with this, because I think it is only ourselves who do the judging, never anyone else. I feel that we have to be careful that our pre-existing culture, education, and upbringing does not colour our interpretation of the facts given to us. Personally, I have not worked out yet why there is so much discrepancy between information given to us.

I feel that there is generally a feeling of love and understanding from others, and when a spirit which cuts short their time on Earth returns to 'there', it is rather like a pupil who has not managed to achieve all that they themselves feel they were capable of in school classes. It is not as if you HAVE to return to Earth, or have to learn anything, it is a choice for your spirit what you WANT to learn and how you go about it. On Earth, the equivalent would be - being able to choose your university major taking a subject that you were passionately interested in. If circumstances come about where you are unable to finish your course for whatever reason, then you may decide to take the next available one, after you have dealt with the issues which arose.

If you can choose the circumstances of your re-entry to Earth, and if you have made the curriculum for your training, then it is only you who is 'qualified' to judge yourself. Other spirits have been through the same process and will completely understand the conditions and circumstances here on Earth and be very understanding. I really do not think there is ANY judgements from others in this issue.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,399 posts, read 7,388,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I would disagree with this, because I think it is only ourselves who do the judging, never anyone else. I feel that we have to be careful that our pre-existing culture, education, and upbringing does not colour our interpretation of the facts given to us. Personally, I have not worked out yet why there is so much discrepancy between information given to us.

I feel that there is generally a feeling of love and understanding from others, and when a spirit which cuts short their time on Earth returns to 'there', it is rather like a pupil who has not managed to achieve all that they themselves feel they were capable of in school classes. It is not as if you HAVE to return to Earth, or have to learn anything, it is a choice for your spirit what you WANT to learn and how you go about it. On Earth, the equivalent would be - being able to choose your university major taking a subject that you were passionately interested in. If circumstances come about where you are unable to finish your course for whatever reason, then you may decide to take the next available one, after you have dealt with the issues which arose.

If you can choose the circumstances of your re-entry to Earth, and if you have made the curriculum for your training, then it is only you who is 'qualified' to judge yourself. Other spirits have been through the same process and will completely understand the conditions and circumstances here on Earth and be very understanding. I really do not think there is ANY judgements from others in this issue.
I have to respectfully disagree with your statements in this post.
To the best of my knowledge, and most of that comes from direct contact, the spirits themselves have stated that a soul returning from an incarnation where the person committed suicide, is as I stated , ignored, scorned, and ridiculed.
That spirit must incarnate once again to amend for what the human was allowed to do.
You are more inclined to think humans control the spirit, and the truth is, it is the other way around.
Every thing we as humans do, every thought we have, is what the soul with in each of us is commanding.
We are but a "glove" encompassing the soul, and have no power to go beyond the thoughts and desires of the soul.

As for judging, that is the sole responsibility of the elder spirits.
When a spirit returns to the spirit world, in time, it goes before a panel of elder spirits, to review the life it just surrendered, and then they will make a judgement as to the elevation of the spirit.
This what I have been told.

Bob.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,399 posts, read 7,388,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
This surprises me, Bob. I thought I've read that the only recourse to further oneself is to return and relive a similar kind of life, having to redo the lessons meant for the previous life. The bit about 'better life' seems like a reward.
By "better life" I meant a life free of the desire to commit suicide.
Spirits , like we humans, change in many ways, depending on circumstances.
And the reason we humans change is because the soul with in demands that change.

The spirit that incarnated into the human that committed suicide, when returning to the spirit world was ignored, scorned, and ridiculed for allowing that human to commit suicide.
That showed weakness of the soul, and that is how it would be judged by elder spirits.
Now, that same soul will be searching for a new life in which to incarnate, one that will not have the desire to take it's own life.
That would be a "better life", one which the soul will have learned from.

Bob.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:06 PM
 
Location: PRC
2,881 posts, read 3,168,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY
That spirit must incarnate once again to amend for what the human was allowed to do. You are more inclined to think humans control the spirit, and the truth is, it is the other way around. Every thing we as humans do, every thought we have, is what the soul with in each of us is commanding. We are but a "glove" encompassing the soul, and have no power to go beyond the thoughts and desires of the soul.
OK, it sounds as if what you are referring the 'soul' is the essence of Source which lives within us. So, who are the 'we' who are the 'glove'? It appears as if the spirit and soul are different entities with wills of their own?

I am not sure I like the way you use 'must' and 'commanding' because it allows no choice in the matter but is dictated by some group or other (elder spirits). However wise and wonderful you think these guys are, it is still a dictatorial and controlling stance which I just do not believe happens. It smacks of a religious bias which as we all know is a method of control, dreamt up by man.

Your claim that this information was obtained straight from the horse's mouth, really does nothing for me because I have not yet discovered why there is such a discrepancy between what various people say happens 'upstairs'. What I am saying is that your source is as good as any other, due to the fact that we get differing accounts of what is the 'true situation' up there. OK, I am sure you believe what you have been told, but so does everyone else too - so who is correct and why does it differ? Maybe you ask that next time you speak to your guys?
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Old 05-13-2019, 03:56 AM
 
Location: NJ
10,380 posts, read 21,104,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALGUY View Post
By "better life" I meant a life free of the desire to commit suicide.
Spirits , like we humans, change in many ways, depending on circumstances.
And the reason we humans change is because the soul with in demands that change.

The spirit that incarnated into the human that committed suicide, when returning to the spirit world was ignored, scorned, and ridiculed for allowing that human to commit suicide.
That showed weakness of the soul, and that is how it would be judged by elder spirits.
Now, that same soul will be searching for a new life in which to incarnate, one that will not have the desire to take it's own life.
That would be a "better life", one which the soul will have learned from.

Bob.
What happens to a soul where the person that committed suicide had no ID, was a John Doe for 20 years? Lyle Stevik is how he signed into the hotel. He was ID'd last year. It's been said he roams the hotel trapped there. Is he set free now that he has his name back?

He was ID'd by family tree DNA, without it he would still be nameless. His family did not release his name but its come out in the last few months. He was a very smart 25 year old who wrote computer code still in use today. No one knows why he checked out when at 25 he was just starting his life.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,399 posts, read 7,388,910 times
Reputation: 7147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
OK, it sounds as if what you are referring the 'soul' is the essence of Source which lives within us. So, who are the 'we' who are the 'glove'? It appears as if the spirit and soul are different entities with wills of their own?

I am not sure I like the way you use 'must' and 'commanding' because it allows no choice in the matter but is dictated by some group or other (elder spirits). However wise and wonderful you think these guys are, it is still a dictatorial and controlling stance which I just do not believe happens. It smacks of a religious bias which as we all know is a method of control, dreamt up by man.

Your claim that this information was obtained straight from the horse's mouth, really does nothing for me because I have not yet discovered why there is such a discrepancy between what various people say happens 'upstairs'. What I am saying is that your source is as good as any other, due to the fact that we get differing accounts of what is the 'true situation' up there. OK, I am sure you believe what you have been told, but so does everyone else too - so who is correct and why does it differ? Maybe you ask that next time you speak to your guys?
The "we" is we humans, and the glove was a metaphor.
The human body is a covering for the soul,just as a "glove" would cover the hands, and when it is no longer needed, it is discarded.
By your post, you seem to be mixing human nature, and prerogatives , which is not the case.
Humans have absolutely no power of any kind over the soul with in.
The soul is the one calling ALL the shots.

Now you can dis-believe that if you wish.


Bob.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
5,399 posts, read 7,388,910 times
Reputation: 7147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
What happens to a soul where the person that committed suicide had no ID, was a John Doe for 20 years? Lyle Stevik is how he signed into the hotel. He was ID'd last year. It's been said he roams the hotel trapped there. Is he set free now that he has his name back?

He was ID'd by family tree DNA, without it he would still be nameless. His family did not release his name but its come out in the last few months. He was a very smart 25 year old who wrote computer code still in use today. No one knows why he checked out when at 25 he was just starting his life.
At the risk of sounding a bit terse, your post is absolutely ridiculous.
What would a human ID have to do with anything regarding a person who decides to commit suicide?
Again, suicide IS NOT controlled by humans, it is the soul with in that commanded a suicide, and that soul will feel the consequences of that decision upon returning to the spirit world.


Bob.
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