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Old 05-08-2019, 01:00 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,471 posts, read 22,922,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Thank you.
Very nice of you.


And I had no idea all that info you gave on Catholics!!! Excellent!
Oh. You are welcome. Ironically, most of this information was gleaned from attendance at a Protestant, non-denominational seminary. I dropped out.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:44 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,471 posts, read 22,922,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I didn't say you did. I said the Warrens did. And they did. Often and repeatedly, both in interviews and in books with which they cooperated.

I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, but in The Demonologist they claim that at the time of its writing there were only seven Church-certified demonologists in the United States, of which Ed Warren was one. Which is just a complete fiction. First of all, there is no such thing as a "Church-certified demonolist" in the Church, and Ed Warren was never one of them. He often claimed he was. But there was no truth to it.




You are correct, and you make a fine point. Strictly speaking, the term "catholic" simply means "universal" and can be applied to many faiths.

But here in the U.S., when people claim to be "Catholic," then it is generally understood that they mean the Roman Catholic Church. The Warrens often used this tactic to lead people to believe something that wasn't true.




Again, a fair point, but that is not what the Warrens claimed or consistently represented themselves. The Roman Catholic Church has no say over whether or not Evangelicals, Jews, Muslims, or pompadored televangelists perform their own exorcists.

But within the Church itself --- the Church that the Warrens misled people into believing they represented --- there are VERY strict guidelines for who can and cannot perform an exorcism and under what conditions.




Well, the sedevancantists for one. I could name others, but this is not the Religion forum.


Want to take this over to "Religion"? I am game!

I'd agree that in the NYC metro area, there are so many "Catholics" who are not affiliated with the RC church. Especially in the upper Midwest.

I do not think that the Warrens were attempting to defraud anyone about their religion. They were raised, baptized and confirmed in the Roman Catholic church. I am sure, like others in their sect, they felt that their church had left them, not the other way around.

Again, my practice has always been to let a person identify as a faith, and to take that at "face value". Not to conduct an inquisition into their affiliations.

There will ALWAYS be people who will say that certain people are "doing it the wrong way". There are Baptist sects that argue about what to others, look like "fine points" to the outside world. In the Jewish religion, Ultra Orthodox groups say that Reform Jews are "not real Jews".

Last edited by sheena12; 05-08-2019 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Maine
16,100 posts, read 20,512,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
I do not think that the Warrens were attempting to defraud anyone about their religion.
I think they occasionally used religion to defraud people of their money.

How sincere they were ... I don't know. I only know what I have read and seen in their interviews, both from the Warrens themselves, as well as their supporters and critics. My own opinion is that Ed at least probably started out as sincere, but once money came into the picture they both loved the snake oil.
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Old Today, 02:28 AM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
18,471 posts, read 22,922,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I think they occasionally used religion to defraud people of their money.

How sincere they were ... I don't know. I only know what I have read and seen in their interviews, both from the Warrens themselves, as well as their supporters and critics. My own opinion is that Ed at least probably started out as sincere, but once money came into the picture they both loved the snake oil.
I don't agree that they "used religion to defraud people of their money". Do you have a like? Proof? An example? Thinking of one's self as a Catholic is not defrauding anyone. As a non Catholic, their Catholism or lack of it, would make no difference to me.

To that point, were they excommunicated officially from the RC church? If not, are they not technically still Roman Catholic?

Did they make money on books or movies? Yes. When I purchased their books, no one held a gun to my head. I also bought them because of my interest in the paranormal - not my interest in theology. The two intersect as times, for some people.

I was personally never under the impression, nor did the Warrens state in any book or movie that the exorcisms, blessings, or any other rite was under the auspices of the Church of Rome. I don't know anyone who has followed the Warren's career who has not known that they were from a traditionalist off shoot branch of the Roman Catholic Church.
They did not hide that fact.
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Old Today, 05:57 AM
 
981 posts, read 439,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I think they occasionally used religion to defraud people of their money.

How sincere they were ... I don't know. I only know what I have read and seen in their interviews, both from the Warrens themselves, as well as their supporters and critics. My own opinion is that Ed at least probably started out as sincere, but once money came into the picture they both loved the snake oil.
They were frauds for sure. Even people that actually believe in that stuff have said so.
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